Determining if a team...

[bsbs]

My daughter's current coach put a couple things together and sent me a random GC box score from 4 years ago. We lost 15-0, we were not ready for a tournament or anything else.

 

[bsbs]

I question the winter tournaments at this time of the year much more than your first 10u tournament. Nobody is ready for that 10u tournament.

 

[PJR202]

Alright... I got one.

How am I going to help the pitcher grow out of Hello Elbow if I don't find them opportunities to pitch away from their PC? LOL

And is it normal for teams to all register for a lower level league than what their skill level is? Seems to be a problem around here. Everyone is C. So then we're getting crushed by A & B teams. We try to find C tournaments, but the pool the pool is diluted enough that it's hard to avoid being in bad spots. In pool play, we'll run into those teams where they let their depth pitch pool play, then slaughter everyone in bracket play.

We try not to travel far, but some parents still opt for hotels in the other smaller communities we visit. The pool parties, restaurants, etc. and just being with their friends brings so much value. It's not just about softball. They aren't miserable by any stretch. I've seen as many kids suffering on winning teams as I have losing teams. Rarely seems to be the actual game driving it.

At some point, you can't duck competition. Maybe you're getting 60% strikes in bullpens but wilt under the pressure of a game. How else are we going to gauge progress if we don't play? Friendlies have been a struggle to line up around here too. Regional problems I guess.

Look...I'm really not interested in a long debate on this, and you seem to keep making points that aren't really relevant to my actual position, which is that I don't think a team is ready if they don't have a 50% pitcher. 50% isn't a huge thing to accomplish. If you're well aware that you're getting into play where most of the teams have no one to throw a strike then by all means, go for it. That's just not a show I would feel good about taking on the road. Regardless of whether the kids are or aren't having fun, coaches DO have a responsibility to the families who are supporting the team by even signing up.

I am in a tiny town with a tiny program. There is no utopia of pitching here. You can win a lot of games if you work your D hard in practice, get your team BA over .350, and pitch to get the ball in play. We sporadically get a kid in private lessons here and there, but we always try our best to put in the work on our own to get someone who can get the ball in play. I spent a few hundred bucks taking courses for an instruction cert and I watch instructors, interact with instructors, or just assess random pitchers online. Every. Single. Day.


Transitioning a kid out of actual "hello-elbow mechanics" while pitching games between lessons is extremely difficult, unless maybe you have a unicorn athlete. That's an offseason change, and even in the offseason it's difficult. It's not as bad if you have a kid who is already internally rotating, but whip pitching will go pretty wonky for a while even in lessons. The elbow finish itself is unrelated to the hello-elbow mechanics. Anyone can get rid of that, but tons of IR/whip pitchers still have the HE finish. But if you've done it, design a course and I'll sign up.

 

[RADcatcher]

I am in a tiny town with a tiny program. There is no utopia of pitching here. You can win a lot of games if you work your D hard in practice, get your team BA over .350, and pitch to get the ball in play. We sporadically get a kid in private lessons here and there, but we always try our best to put in the work on our own to get someone who can get the ball in play. I spent a few hundred bucks taking courses for an instruction cert and I watch instructors, interact with instructors, or just assess random pitchers online. Every. Single. Day.

Seriously, it is really awesome to read what you posted here! That I like it so much recognize is effort needed to see! Hooray people are still applying themselves to this!
I want to give what you posted a hug!

 

[Nuwin]

I this. I that. Some of y'all have had it so good you lack perspective on how the rest of the world lives. I know I'm not going to change your mind. But I'm not going to stop advocating for the kids you are willing to discard.

My obligation to the parents was not defined by a win/loss record. It is to meet kids where they are, teach them the game, help them improve, and hopefully grow a love of the game. If they love the game, they'll start or keep working on their own. And if they decided the game wasn't for them, they could walk away with no regrets.

We're not going to back down or shy away from competition. And we aren't going to apologize that maybe our starting point was further back than others. We know how the game works with pitching. We're not oblivious. Being competitive is a mindset, not an outcome to us. The games let us see if we're closing the gap, treading water, or falling further behind.

If that's not good enough, and your player is good enough physically and mentally, you go to the city where those high achievement based teams that cater to the top 2% or whatever that play beyond high school live. And it is understood that if players reach a certain level, that is their destiny as there isn't any recruiting help to be offered. When we lose those kids, its a win.

 

[RADcatcher]

I this. I that. Some of y'all have had it so good you lack perspective on how the rest of the world lives. I know I'm not going to change your mind. But I'm not going to stop advocating for the kids you are willing to discard.

My obligation to the parents was not defined by a win/loss record. It is to meet kids where they are, teach them the game, help them improve, and hopefully grow a love of the game. If they love the game, they'll start or keep working on their own. And if they decided the game wasn't for them, they could walk away with no regrets.

We're not going to back down or shy away from competition. And we aren't going to apologize that maybe our starting point was further back than others. We know how the game works with pitching. We're not oblivious. Being competitive is a mindset, not an outcome to us. The games let us see if we're closing the gap, treading water, or falling further behind.

If that's not good enough, and your player is good enough physically and mentally, you go to the city where those high achievement based teams that cater to the top 2% or whatever that play beyond high school live. And it is understood that if players reach a certain level, that is their destiny as there isn't any recruiting help to be offered. When we lose those kids, its a win.

What age are your posts referencing?
Is this city League stuff?

What I see PJR202 is talking about is having a standard of preparedness before entering tournaments.

Do you have standards of Developmental level on the team you coach? Or is this a beginner situation where anyone can play because it's a fun activity versus keeping track of productivity. And while doing that your trying to hold the ladder for a few players that might otherwise move from C to something better?

 

[Nuwin]

Me personally... We're 12U now. But being a small town, we're all aware of what the siblings of our team are doing. The org pretty young but basically dies at high school. Prior to that my understanding was there were teams here and there as players were available, but they operated independently. But once you hit high school, you reach the fork in the road. Most common is the multi-sport path where you play at the high school level but aren't playing beyond that. The ones with greater potential start to specialize mostly out of necessity with all the extra travel and expenses. They'll typically only do the HS team of their dedicated sport.

We do travel to the city for league like many of the surrounding towns. Once past coach pitch, the small town circuit evaporates. It's often a massacre even at the lowest level since most everyone plays down to give them more tournament registration options. But if you're playing fastpitch, that's our option. We do have a loosely organized rec option available, but I fail to see how any pitcher would progress out of that. It looks like slowpitch to me. Nobody to my knowledge has made the leap as a pitcher. Just the occasional position player.

Edit: League is typically tournament prep. So it's possible to feel good about yourself in league and still get crushed in a tournament. It's an unspoken agreement for a large number of teams. It's the win at all cost teams that spoil the vibe. And what's interesting is they all have great win/loss records. But then every year, it's like musical chairs with the players. They all are unhappy for whatever reason so they end up on one of the other winners. Rinse and repeat. So the roster turnover from year to year is shocking. The grass isn't greener for any of em. They're good because they're the flagship team and can be selective about the level of player. But winning isn't enough to drive continuity.

 

[Nuwin]

Do you have standards of Developmental level on the team you coach? Or is this a beginner situation where anyone can play because it's a fun activity versus keeping track of productivity. And while doing that your trying to hold the ladder for a few players that might otherwise move from C to something better?

Looks like you edited while I was responding. I think I babbled enough to hit your points.

But I can take this statement and say the first part is the goal, the end is the current reality.

Our community is growing. People are fleeing the city to pay less in taxes... so they can pay more in gas money. LOL. But it's the blueprint laid by some other smaller towns that grew up around us. We're just hitting the point of being able have enough bodies to organize.

 

[PJR202]

I this. I that. Some of y'all have had it so good you lack perspective on how the rest of the world lives. I know I'm not going to change your mind. But I'm not going to stop advocating for the kids you are willing to discard.

My obligation to the parents was not defined by a win/loss record. It is to meet kids where they are, teach them the game, help them improve, and hopefully grow a love of the game. If they love the game, they'll start or keep working on their own. And if they decided the game wasn't for them, they could walk away with no regrets.

We're not going to back down or shy away from competition. And we aren't going to apologize that maybe our starting point was further back than others. We know how the game works with pitching. We're not oblivious. Being competitive is a mindset, not an outcome to us. The games let us see if we're closing the gap, treading water, or falling further behind.

If that's not good enough, and your player is good enough physically and mentally, you go to the city where those high achievement based teams that cater to the top 2% or whatever that play beyond high school live. And it is understood that if players reach a certain level, that is their destiny as there isn't any recruiting help to be offered. When we lose those kids, its a win.

I feel like you're just reading whatever you want to read, despite what's actually on the screen. But, you do you. I'll go back to helping to scrape together strikes in a tiny town with a $20k average household income, 60 HS athletes spread amongst 5 sports plus their respective travel seasons, with the nearest pitching instructor 40 minutes away. And we currently have...12 high school players, 11 middle school, and....6 in 12u, I believe.

But we're so blessed that HS will bring in probably 4 or 5 new ones (that I'd rather "discard," ya know...but we don't turn any willing participant away) with 0 experience who we'll scramble to teach how to throw and catch and explain what an inning is, and how many balls and strikes you get in the 4 weeks we'll have between the first official practice and our first game with the second-best team in the region. At least one of them will get up to bat and not even realize when they've struck out.

And then we lost our #1 and #2 pitchers to injury and transfer. They were also our #1 and #4 best hitters. We only had 4 who hit over .350 to begin with.

The 6 or so girls who aren't playing other sports all offseason have been working voluntarily, twice a week since June. Not playing travel...just practicing to keep up with travel-player loaded school teams. We have one HS player who plays travel. The rest play inter-squad 5 on 5 (coaches or parents or MS kids filling in the other spots) with coach pitch when they aren't drilling over and over. And then the other starters, (who play other sports and have done zero softballing since May) will show up almost completely seized with rust, so we'll scramble to get them as many reps as possible and pray they'll hit .300.

And I'll continue to do 3x per week pitching and hitting with my own kid in addition to the two team practices. And I'll continue to be available to open our batting cage to any kid, any time. Oh, and continue to have an open pitching instruction day once a week...I forgot about that one.

Oh also, we'll work on the field. Probably end up just filling in the low spots with clay and turface because who has money for rehabbing the slope? Hopefully a dog doesn't get out there and dig holes all over the infield again. And then there's the deer pooping everywhere. And the dugout fridge compressor died. But there aren't any free drinks in there anyway.

Oh and we'll have to fundraise again...in the town with the $20k household income.

I have a whole journal about how it all started, and all the follies and absurdity along the way, and the tiny victories among it in the parent section of DFP if this wasn't enough evidence of how we discard players.

 

[Nuwin]

You're somewhat correct. I'm reading past your personal accolades. It's commendable. But I'm equally not interested. That's not going to be my reality.

I am taking exception to the notion that you should not play without a pitcher at a certain level. It's nice to have. I'm not arguing the validity of the game being pitcher dominant for sustained success as far as wins and losses goes. I am still going to advocate playing the hand one is dealt the best you can, and not just folding and giving up.

This is what my community is willing to do, and that's what we'll work with. That's the price we have to pay to participate.