Determining if a team...

[Nuwin]

Yep, let's throw out the baby with the bathwater.

There is (hopefully) a competitive level for everyone in an area. It's fine if you don't like it. Even better if you're talented enough to be above it. But I 100% disagree with discouraging anyone from playing because their team or community lacks some element.

If you have a full roster, and an appropriate competition level, play. Or a full roster and some self awareness of your reality, play. Yeah, walkfests sucked for me personally. But I refused to project that on the kids. And they still had fun. And came back. But hey, if someone was good enough to leave, I am more than happy to help them get to a level that was appropriate for them. But at 8/10/12U, I'm failing to see where anyone even cares what your results were. If my DD ends up good enough for a scholarship, but I cost her because we sucked at 10U as we decided having fun was more important than a win/loss record, so be it. She can be mad at me the rest of her life. I'll still sleep at night.

 

[PJR202]

Yep, let's throw out the baby with the bathwater.

There is (hopefully) a competitive level for everyone in an area. It's fine if you don't like it. Even better if you're talented enough to be above it. But I 100% disagree with discouraging anyone from playing because their team or community lacks some element.

If you have a full roster, and an appropriate competition level, play. Or a full roster and some self awareness of your reality, play. Yeah, walkfests sucked for me personally. But I refused to project that on the kids. And they still had fun. And came back. But hey, if someone was good enough to leave, I am more than happy to help them get to a level that was appropriate for them. But at 8/10/12U, I'm failing to see where anyone even cares what your results were. If my DD ends up good enough for a scholarship, but I cost her because we sucked at 10U as we decided having fun was more important than a win/loss record, so be it. She can be mad at me the rest of her life. I'll still sleep at night.

I don't necessarily disagree with everything you say here, but the question was 'when is a team ready for tournaments.' A team without a pitcher than can get the ball into play isn't ready.

Why would you attend a tournament, which potentially involves fees, travel/gas, hotel, etc, when your kids will literally be standing in the field with nothing to do on defense? They aren't learning anything. They aren't getting better. The pitcher is suffering. Everyone is just there eating M&M's or something. You're doing a disservice to your players, parents, and opponent. I've felt bad every time I've coached a team who couldn't even give my opponent something to swing at.

Why would you even want to play games at a level where the other teams were in the same boat? That's just poor preparation. I'm in a tiny town with a very small program, but we manage to scrape together some semblance of pitching.

 

[Nuwin]

Life is meaningless and there is no point to anything we do. . I don't project my feelings on players.

You never know who is watching. The softball community is both large, and at times, very small. The current state might suck. But if you hustle, show you can hit, and are alert between pitches, you might get yourself an invite to a better team.

If you don't enter the arena, you forfeit that chance entirely.

So I disagree that they don't have the opportunity to learn anything. They may not. But that's on them at that point.

 

[RADcatcher]

Playing Friendly's are a less expensive way to learn a lot about a team to prepare before tournament play.

See some teams that are just coming together even though they have players who have played travel ball before I would suggest to them to not play any tournaments for 8-12 weeks until they get used to each other and the coach can figure out who fits where in the lineup. Skills build and prepare first!

Everyone is just there eating M&M's or something.

Haaa

 

[PJR202]

Life is meaningless and there is no point to anything we do. . I don't project my feelings on players.

You never know who is watching. The softball community is both large, and at times, very small. The current state might suck. But if you hustle, show you can hit, and are alert between pitches, you might get yourself an invite to a better team.

If you don't enter the arena, you forfeit that chance entirely.

So I disagree that they don't have the opportunity to learn anything. They may not. But that's on them at that point.

Or you just take the time to find a pitcher before you go.

I don't know why you keep saying it's only the coach's feelings involved.

 

[Nuwin]

Where is this utopia where pitchers grow on trees? The bulk of the teams I have seen have had pitchers below 50% strikes. We'd have next to no tournaments if they dropped out. City pitcher doesn't want to come here. Now what? I just refuse to reconcile throwing in the towel as a viable option for the kids.

How much does a kid learn on defense standing behind a pitcher that strikes nearly everyone out? They get to sit down sooner, but otherwise the balls in play ratio is the same as the pitcher who walks most batters. Still just standing around on defense. And any position could go several games not seeing a ball come their way even if balls are put in play.

You keep talking about how you feel bad. So I keep talking about how I don't let the outcome of their game affect me. Simple as that. I would wager that about half of the games we played or watched, the kids would have had no idea what the score was if parents or coaches weren't cheering or telling them. Their perception of good and bad was so different from the adults.

When I had the opportunity to play team sports as a kid, I knew we weren't good. But I was never suffering unless coach was yelling at us. We sucked, and had fun.

 

[Nuwin]

Alright... I got one.

How am I going to help the pitcher grow out of Hello Elbow if I don't find them opportunities to pitch away from their PC? LOL

And is it normal for teams to all register for a lower level league than what their skill level is? Seems to be a problem around here. Everyone is C. So then we're getting crushed by A & B teams. We try to find C tournaments, but the pool the pool is diluted enough that it's hard to avoid being in bad spots. In pool play, we'll run into those teams where they let their depth pitch pool play, then slaughter everyone in bracket play.

We try not to travel far, but some parents still opt for hotels in the other smaller communities we visit. The pool parties, restaurants, etc. and just being with their friends brings so much value. It's not just about softball. They aren't miserable by any stretch. I've seen as many kids suffering on winning teams as I have losing teams. Rarely seems to be the actual game driving it.

At some point, you can't duck competition. Maybe you're getting 60% strikes in bullpens but wilt under the pressure of a game. How else are we going to gauge progress if we don't play? Friendlies have been a struggle to line up around here too. Regional problems I guess.

 

[CoachCeetar]

Yep, let's throw out the baby with the bathwater.

There is (hopefully) a competitive level for everyone in an area. It's fine if you don't like it. Even better if you're talented enough to be above it. But I 100% disagree with discouraging anyone from playing because their team or community lacks some element.

If you have a full roster, and an appropriate competition level, play. Or a full roster and some self awareness of your reality, play. Yeah, walkfests sucked for me personally. But I refused to project that on the kids. And they still had fun. And came back. But hey, if someone was good enough to leave, I am more than happy to help them get to a level that was appropriate for them. But at 8/10/12U, I'm failing to see where anyone even cares what your results were. If my DD ends up good enough for a scholarship, but I cost her because we sucked at 10U as we decided having fun was more important than a win/loss record, so be it. She can be mad at me the rest of her life. I'll still sleep at night.

Absolutely. The summer was our first year playing a real travel schedule (It's called 3rd/4th but it's 10u C if we're being official). Almost everyone was 8, or only just turned 9. Our #1 pitcher hadn't played softball, period, before March. None of them had pitched before April. We had 6 girls throw an inning that was literally their first inning pitched in a game.

We were mostly outmatched in our two tournaments. (These were local tournaments, one hosted by us. No club teams, but plenty of teams that skirted that line and clearly had developed programs, even if they were town programs. Only cost was the entry fee) We "battled" as they say. We knew we were outmatched, and the girls understood that too, and how much of a learning experience it was.

We all had fun. Yes, there were a lot of walks, but also there weren't. Sometimes the pitchers would get close enough and teams just put the balls in play. It challenged them to make plays, it introduced them to a speed of the game that maybe they weren't as accustomed too. Multiple parents have said since that "I think X has found their sport" (including me). We had a blast. we learned. we had munchkins. We talked about how we much better we'd do next year.

So were we "ready"? nah. But there are a lot of things that you really can't be ready for until you just do it.

 

[Towny9]

Absolutely. The summer was our first year playing a real travel schedule (It's called 3rd/4th but it's 10u C if we're being official). Almost everyone was 8, or only just turned 9. Our #1 pitcher hadn't played softball, period, before March. None of them had pitched before April. We had 6 girls throw an inning that was literally their first inning pitched in a game.

We were mostly outmatched in our two tournaments. (These were local tournaments, one hosted by us. No club teams, but plenty of teams that skirted that line and clearly had developed programs, even if they were town programs. Only cost was the entry fee) We "battled" as they say. We knew we were outmatched, and the girls understood that too, and how much of a learning experience it was.

We all had fun. Yes, there were a lot of walks, but also there weren't. Sometimes the pitchers would get close enough and teams just put the balls in play. It challenged them to make plays, it introduced them to a speed of the game that maybe they weren't as accustomed too. Multiple parents have said since that "I think X has found their sport" (including me). We had a blast. we learned. we had munchkins. We talked about how we much better we'd do next year.

So were we "ready"? nah. But there are a lot of things that you really can't be ready for until you just do it.

Like having kids…

 

[Chilixa]

In our area we have a decent rec program that can allow girls to develop to the point they can be competitive when they start travel/tourneys. So for me it wouldn’t make sense to travel and spend a bunch of money for reps without having pitchers that can throw strikes.

But I can see where some would want to do tourneys even without an experienced pitcher if your area didn’t have other options. It is better to play than not to play.

My guess is the difference in opinions is probably influenced by the quality of other opportunities to play in a given area.


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