DD Pitch analysis please

[Carly]

Everyone has made good points so far about the leg work and the glove hand, and those things are definitely worth working on. I'm also seeing a very stiff armed release. She has a bit of internal rotation in the wrist, but she's keeping her whole arm straight. She needs more of a whipping action. Check out this video of Yukiko Ueno and take a look at the differences between her arm action and your daughter's arm action:
Japanese Softball - YouTube

You want to shoot for a fast, loose, rubbery arm.

 

[RookKev]

I have been looking at that arm as well. Coming over the top of her head, she has a nice bend in her elbow, but I think somewhere around 10 o'clock, she gets to full extension and the whip breaks down. She is trying to promote IR at the end of the path, but with a stiff elbow, which I think beside repitition, is the lack of potential power. I'm wondering if that arm brace gadget might help her hold the bend throughout her arm circle. It is definitely there at 12, but as you noticed, it seems to disappear.

I'm curious about the step style vs leap and drag commentary. She is 5'0" tall, and we are havign to reign her back a little bit on her drive because her feet were getting too far ahead of her body (more of the core strength argument support imo). She was getting close to 6'0" on her drive, which seems not inline with a step style concept from my understanding. I think the very small/lack of a noticeable load makes it seem like she is just stepping, and not leaping into her drive. We have tried to add a small rock backto her windup to promote a loading and momentum building wieght shift.

Obviously, there is alot here, and picking the appropriate pieces to work on is tricky. I am leaning towards building the arm whip along with the stronger glove hand should be the focus. Question... arm whip and IR, they don't seem to be a motion that promotes a flip change, is that correct?

 

[David Carter]

I have been looking at that arm as well. Coming over the top of her head, she has a nice bend in her elbow, but I think somewhere around 10 o'clock, she gets to full extension and the whip breaks down. She is trying to promote IR at the end of the path, but with a stiff elbow, which I think beside repitition, is the lack of potential power. I'm wondering if that arm brace gadget might help her hold the bend throughout her arm circle. It is definitely there at 12, but as you noticed, it seems to disappear.

I'm curious about the step style vs leap and drag commentary. She is 5'0" tall, and we are havign to reign her back a little bit on her drive because her feet were getting too far ahead of her body (more of the core strength argument support imo). She was getting close to 6'0" on her drive, which seems not inline with a step style concept from my understanding. I think the very small/lack of a noticeable load makes it seem like she is just stepping, and not leaping into her drive. We have tried to add a small rock backto her windup to promote a loading and momentum building wieght shift.

Obviously, there is alot here, and picking the appropriate pieces to work on is tricky. I am leaning towards building the arm whip along with the stronger glove hand should be the focus. Question... arm whip and IR, they don't seem to be a motion that promotes a flip change, is that correct?

I just don't think that is a positive approach, somehow getting her to not drive as hard has she can seems very counter productive. If she is not driving as hard as she can she will never pitch as hard as she can. As long as she is driving forward properly, forward not up, forward not leaking off to the side notice how I keep stressing forward. If somehow she had a timing issue with her lower body and upper body you need to address that but IMHO slowing her lower half down is not the right answer.

 

[Carly]

I have been looking at that arm as well. Coming over the top of her head, she has a nice bend in her elbow, but I think somewhere around 10 o'clock, she gets to full extension and the whip breaks down. She is trying to promote IR at the end of the path, but with a stiff elbow, which I think beside repitition, is the lack of potential power. I'm wondering if that arm brace gadget might help her hold the bend throughout her arm circle. It is definitely there at 12, but as you noticed, it seems to disappear.

I'm curious about the step style vs leap and drag commentary. She is 5'0" tall, and we are havign to reign her back a little bit on her drive because her feet were getting too far ahead of her body (more of the core strength argument support imo). She was getting close to 6'0" on her drive, which seems not inline with a step style concept from my understanding. I think the very small/lack of a noticeable load makes it seem like she is just stepping, and not leaping into her drive. We have tried to add a small rock backto her windup to promote a loading and momentum building wieght shift.

Obviously, there is alot here, and picking the appropriate pieces to work on is tricky. I am leaning towards building the arm whip along with the stronger glove hand should be the focus. Question... arm whip and IR, they don't seem to be a motion that promotes a flip change, is that correct?

No arm braces! You don't want anything that is going to restrict motion in any way. Yes, she needs more bend in her arm, but she shouldn't be actively trying to bend her arm; the bend happens naturally as a result of a fluid whipping action. You can't do that with a brace on.

And yes, it is possible to stride too far, especially at a young age. It's tricky to find the balance; you want to be as aggressive as possible, but not at the expense of good mechanics. If the motion is breaking down because the stride is so long the rest of her body can't keep up with it, bringing the stride in a little is an appropriate adjustment to make. My general rule of thumb is the stride length should be about a pitcher's height, or maybe her height plus a few inches, until her core is strong enough to maintain good mechanics regardless of stride length.

About the flip change: it's a totally different pitch... in fact, all change ups are. There isn't any real whip or IR in any of them. You have to be able to differentiate between fastball and change up arm action and do both.

 

[halskinner]

Kev,

In my other response I pointed out that she was not pushing off the rubber, therefore, a step style pitcher.

Now, so EVERYONE will hopefully understand, here is the first immediate indicator a pitcher is throwing with 'step style' mechanics.

If there is no full extension of the pivot foot ankle, THERE IS NO PUSH OFF HAPPENING AT ALL. It's that simple.

How do you make a jump shot in basketball? You bend your knees, push yourself upwards by using you leg muscles AND EXTENDING YOUR ANKLE AND FOOT to get the most height. Those same muscles are all used by a leap and drag pitcher but they are used to propel you forwards.

Change her over to leap and and she will not just be faster she will feel much better in the effort.

Change her over and you will find many of these other lesser issues will fix themselves.

At her age a stride length of 100% of her height is considered strong and aggressive for a leap and drag pitcher.

Stride foot height. The higher the stride foot goes above the ground, the farther it must come down to land and the harder it will land. The harder the landing, the more jarring the landing. If the landing foot touchdown is not smooth and non-jarring, speed, accuracy and her shoulder will suffer because of it.

You are receiving alot of different advice. Do whatever you decide, it's your kid not mine.

 

[RookKev]

Hal,

I know you have posted on this before, do you suppose you could link me up to videos of the two different methods you are describing. I've always been under the impression my daughter is leaping and dragging. It's not as explosive as you see from some girls, but at the same time, there is definitely drag happening, or her toes would last longer onher shoes! I guess I don't understand the concept myself, and thus why I'm confused on that point. She has been pitching for 4 years now, but only 2 years of more focused work. She does not suffer any pain. That is not to say it might not creep up when she gets just a little bigger/older. So, I ask in earnest, not in defense, if you can show me what you are describing.

You're right, she is getting lots of advice here, and definitely some of it is in opposition to the other. That's ok. She gets instruction from different coaches at practice, than her pitching coach, and that is different than her conditioning coach, she is pretty good at picking out what she can and can't implement, or shouldn't. It's very much like the whole swing arguments that always crop up!

We talked about doing 'the Hillhouse drill', catching your own pitch, and really trying to ensure the glove moves along a straighter line, and that bend in the throwing elbow allows for loose whip. I hope to see her spend some time on this over the next couple weeks and maybe see some results soon.

 

[halskinner]

Kev,

Have her stand on the rubber. Now you stand in front of her about a foot or so away. Have her put her hands on your chest. Now slowly, with one foot ahead of the other, YOU slowly go backwards with her letting her bvody go on an angle forward. When she is asbout on a 35 to 40 degree angle, stop going backwards and hold your position.

nnow have her lift her stride foot about 5 or 6 inches above the ground and using her pivot foot and knee, try and push you backwards. Dont let her push you back. then have her bring her stride foot back down and get ber balance.

THAT is the angle she should come forward to before starting her push off from the rubber AND that is how hard she needs to push off.

You dont need a video, you need to do that and she needs to do that. If she does the run through drill, that is also the angle she should be on when the pivot foot comes down on the rubber and how hard she should be pushing off there also.

I have used this technique a gazillion times to convert students. As long as she has a solid wall or a catcher, you have everything you need.

 

[halskinner]

"We talked about doing 'the Hillhouse drill', catching your own pitch'

Uh, when I was around 7-years-old, I remember seeing adult male pitchers doing that to stay warm when there was a game delay on a cold day, or when waiting for the catcher to get on the field to warm them up.

Dont know who came up with that or when but it was way before I was born.

 

[RookKev]

Thanks! We will be exploring this later tonight. Sounds like a great technique to really let her feel the lean required. We have done sprinters starter block starts to try and get her to feel it. I think your idea is more relevant to the motion.

 

[halskinner]

Make sure she lands on a bit of a backward lean, with a slight bend in the stride knee.

I used this with almost ev ery student. Had to get on my knees for some 8 year old and had a couple of 18u and one college pitcher push me backwards and onto my keester. Boy, did I catch heck from the other instructors for letting that happen!

"Hey Coach Hal, hows the rear end doin?? HAHAHA".
(Reply) :"Its still a little sore but, thanks for askin. Ya wanna kiss it and make it all better??"