Curveball Twist and Turn? Corkscrew Curve video

[Gags]

...if i understood the article, this would be the reason why my DD's 2 seam 'fastball' which has a 7-1 forward spin (from pitchers perspective) with clockwise (from top) yaw and the inner seam farther out front hitting early laminar separation, would break to the right because the later laminar separation on the right side seam is causing turbulence and the ball to 'pull' to the right, correct?

This could be the inaugural post for the new "Technical Pitching" forum.

But in all seriousness - thank you for asking these questions, as my daughter is just starting on her 3rd pitch (well, 2nd, using the BH scale ). Being able to understand, and then help her understand, how to impart more movement on a pitch she already throws is, IMO, better than trying to call it a new "pitch". (e.g. drop curve vs outside drop).

 

[fanboi22]

This could be the inaugural post for the new "Technical Pitching" forum.

But in all seriousness - thank you for asking these questions, as my daughter is just starting on her 3rd pitch (well, 2nd, using the BH scale ). Being able to understand, and then help her understand, how to impart more movement on a pitch she already throws is, IMO, better than trying to call it a new "pitch". (e.g. drop curve vs outside drop).

I ask the questions to try and learn, and maybe also a little to see if the person answering makes sense. Much of the dogma and egos get in the way of these, more so on the hitting forum.

We have gained a lifetime of info on this site, and if i can help get someone else to the finish line that much quicker by calling out specifics i will try. I dont know the 'mental' side of the sport, just trying to get the mechanics down. How to make the ball spin and move is science, and if we can make sure the ball can spin in a specific way, it should react as expected.

Slow motion video has helped this quite a bit as well. I dont usually like saying just let the kids athleticism work, there are specific things they should practice. Barely do i let a session go without multiple, multiple breaks to review the slow motion footage. If you are not seeing the right things, stop and work on practicing the right things. Don't go thru a whole session thinking it was correct, that is a waste of time.

 

[sprtfan]

SSW pitches are not dependent on RPM's and the seams are what make a knuckle ball move.

A RHP's drop curve works very well against left hand hitters. When you take into account the fact that the swing is not 'level' and the bat is not parallel to the ground you can see why this pitch works against lefties. And vice versa LHP against RH hitters.

At 37 seconds you can see Rachel Garcia throw a drop curve to a left hand hitter.

This surprised me a little. When I was playing baseball (RHP) I was always told to throw a slider/curveball to righties and use my change up more vs lefties. The reason being that it is easier to hit/make contact with a ball moving towards you than away. I know that is an over simplification and can think of several baseball examples where this doesn't hold true but was the general train of thought at least. Would softball be different? I can see the strategy vs a slapper being different but expected the basics of how to attack most hitters would be the same in baseball and softball.

 

[BrianTx01]

Lots of good pitchers that are doing it wrong I guess. Bullet spin all the way. I don't claim to be an expert but I just see a lot of successful pitchers that have a bullet spin on at least some of their pitches.

 

[ArmWhip]

This surprised me a little. When I was playing baseball (RHP) I was always told to throw a slider/curveball to righties and use my change up more vs lefties. The reason being that it is easier to hit/make contact with a ball moving towards you than away. I know that is an over simplification and can think of several baseball examples where this doesn't hold true but was the general train of thought at least. Would softball be different? I can see the strategy vs a slapper being different but expected the basics of how to attack most hitters would be the same in baseball and softball.

If you look at bat plane you can see that on a low pitch the bat is angled down at somewhere around 45 degrees so a ball breaking down and in (LH drop curve to RH hitter or vice versa) is crossing the bat at a right angle, tough to make contact, it's a very small sweet spot. That's how I see it.

 

[Bonesaw]

Lots of good pitchers that are doing it wrong I guess. Bullet spin all the way. I don't claim to be an expert but I just see a lot of successful pitchers that have a bullet spin on at least some of their pitches.

You have any video of Monica Abbot throwing bullet spin? Or Osterman? Or any elite men's pitcher?

I watched the world series last year and I saw a few hanging sliders get by some of the best hitters in the game. I also saw some hanging sliders bouncing off the seats in the outfield.

I think eventually you run into hitters where spin and spin axis are critical.

This video is kind of cool except Im not sure what her "fastball" is(edit: which she says she never threw in games). Maybe bullet spin?

 

[BrianTx01]

You have any video of Monica Abbot throwing bullet spin? Or Osterman? Or any elite men's pitcher?

I watched the world series last year and I saw a few hanging sliders get by some of the best hitters in the game. I also saw some hanging sliders bouncing off the seats in the outfield.

I think eventually you run into hitters where spin and spin axis are critical.

This video is kind of cool except Im not sure what her "fastball" is(edit: which she says she never threw in games). Maybe bullet spin?

Monica and Cat are both left handers so I guess their bullet spin would have to go the other way. My take on this video is that Lisa is saying that the fastball should be 12-6 so you can see the variation of spin on the curve ball and screwball (or bullet spin inside fastball as some might like to call it).

All of this maybe immaterial. Just because Rachel Garcia can throw a bullet spin doesn't mean everyone should. Adrian Beltre hit a ton of home runs from one knee but no one would teach that batting technique.

 

[erniekru]

You have any video of Monica Abbot throwing bullet spin? Or Osterman? Or any elite men's pitcher?

I watched the world series last year and I saw a few hanging sliders get by some of the best hitters in the game. I also saw some hanging sliders bouncing off the seats in the outfield.

I think eventually you run into hitters where spin and spin axis are critical.

This video is kind of cool except Im not sure what her "fastball" is(edit: which she says she never threw in games). Maybe bullet spin?

To not put Garcia in the same grouping as Abbot and Osterman or any elite mens pitchers is crazy... The only thing that Garcia doesn't have is years of age.

Did you really infer that because of Garcia's spin she's throwing "hanging curves"?

 

[Hillhouse]

To not put Garcia in the same grouping as Abbot and Osterman or any elite mens pitchers is crazy...

This is beyond wrong. You can't even put Abbot and Osterman into a category with top level men's FP pitchers. Their top speed would be that of a change up to someone who pitches on a middle of the pack team, not even one of the best. And this isn't a secret, they know this. I've had plenty of conversations with both about pitching, other pitchers, etc. Take either of these pitchers, make them pitch against a men's team, between moving back another 3 feet (men pitch from 46 feet), their back swing (hitters would know what's coming well in advance), and their lack of ability to throw is past a anyone would be a recipe for disaster. Quite simply, they don't have the speed to blow it past a hitter with men's FP experience.

Last month in Dallas, I had a convo with Kellani Ricketts about the above type situation. She mentioned that a casino in California was considering a team in the NPF, and as a promotion they put Rickett's NPF team in an exhibition game vs a men's team. The men's team had Tony Mancha pitching, who's a very good pitcher. Ricketts said it wasn't even close.

Both Cat and Monica have pretty good spins on their pitches. Monica has more side spin (not bullet spin, more like a curveball) on her rise than Cat does but they both have the closest I've seen to "correct spin" on other pitches, which is why they are among the top 2 in the world for the ladies. Right now, Garcia's best weapon at the international level is that she's an unknown. The Japanese haven't seen much (if any) of her. She will be USA's #1 going forward, no question. Unfortunately, the USA women will be back to reality after this year without the Olympics... struggling for funding.

 

[Hillhouse]

This video is kind of cool except Im not sure what her "fastball" is(edit: which she says she never threw in games). Maybe bullet spin?

Hmm, imagine that. Never threw a FB in games. Where have I heard that before?