Curveball Twist and Turn? Corkscrew Curve video

[sprtfan]

Oh boy...I'll try this one more time.

If a ball is thrown with perfect corkscrew (AKA bullet spin) where the direction of motion is perfectly aligned with the axis of rotation of the ball, the ball will go throw straight.

*HOWEVER*, suppose you throw a ball with perfect corkscrew pin, but the direction of motion is *NOT* perfectly aligned with the ball's axis of rotation. If that occurs, then as the ball spins, one side of the ball has more seams interacting with the air than the other, causing the ball to move.

This type of ball motion is caused by laminar flow over the ball, not the Magnus effect.

Boardmember is using the same physics as Garcia uses to throw her riseball.



From a pitching perspective, the challenge is to consistently getting the correct angle to make the pitch predictable.

In the Arizona v. Washington game last night, Lopez threw a riseball using laminar flow. She didn't get the angle right, and it was a high fastball, which ended up over the left field fence.

Here is a full description of the physics behind the ball movement:

Laminar Express: Using Baseball Science to Enhance Two-Seam Fastballs

A "laminar express" pitch is a two-seam fastball whose term was coined by Trevor Bauer years ago when he developed a pitch that had dramatically more

www.drivelinebaseball.com

Ok, I thought I was missing something and it sounds like this is basically the same pitch as a screwball with the only difference being the spins orientation vs the the direction of the motion. Release early, and the axis will be more towards the RH batter and releasing more across the body or later will have the axis spinning away from the RH batter. Sounds like it would move less than a curve and potentially be harder to control too?

 

[ArmWhip]

Magnus effect is easy to understand and simple to throw, the ball breaks in the direction of the spin. Seam Shifted Wake pitches are a lot different and difficult to throw. With Magnus you only have to worry about spin direction. With SSW spin direction is very important but you also have to have perfect seam orientation, without both you get nothing. Basically speaking the ball has to have roughly half bullet spin or gyro as it's called in baseball. Then the ball has to be gripped in a way that will present the curved part of the horseshoe seam consistently on the aerodynamic horizon of the ball. Where the seam is located on the horizon will determine the break, and it can be anywhere, left, right, top or bottom. If you're the scientific type and want to know more follow the link, this stuff often gives me a headache.

An Introduction to Seam-Shifted Wakes and their Effect on Sinkers

Chances are that if you’re reading this blog post, you’ve had the fortune of watching a Mariano Rivera cutter, a Roy Halladay sinker, or a Pedro Martinez

www.drivelinebaseball.com

 

[Hillhouse]

Yeah the terminology used in the hitting forum is worse, lol.

Based on your comment above, you are saying the 'run in affect' is because the index finger is stronger.... are you saying then this means that the spin is also then going 'in' on a right hand hitter from a right hand pitcher?

Yes, sometimes referred to as a "cutter".

 

[sprtfan]

We played around with it yesterday and to my surprise, it worked and seemed to click with her pretty fast. She had some problems controlling the curve she had been working on and it almost always was pretty slow. She had much better control of this and it did seem to break but not as much as it would if it had 9 to 3 spin I expect but it had the added benefit of actually dropping some too I believe. We just played around with it after a normal work out for fun and will see how it goes next time.

 

[sprtfan]

Magnus effect is easy to understand and simple to throw, the ball breaks in the direction of the spin. Seam Shifted Wake pitches are a lot different and difficult to throw. With Magnus you only have to worry about spin direction. With SSW spin direction is very important but you also have to have perfect seam orientation, without both you get nothing. Basically speaking the ball has to have roughly half bullet spin or gyro as it's called in baseball. Then the ball has to be gripped in a way that will present the curved part of the horseshoe seam consistently on the aerodynamic horizon of the ball. Where the seam is located on the horizon will determine the break, and it can be anywhere, left, right, top or bottom. If you're the scientific type and want to know more follow the link, this stuff often gives me a headache.

An Introduction to Seam-Shifted Wakes and their Effect on Sinkers

Chances are that if you’re reading this blog post, you’ve had the fortune of watching a Mariano Rivera cutter, a Roy Halladay sinker, or a Pedro Martinez

www.drivelinebaseball.com

The spin and motion of the ball she was throwing was similar to this but with less overall movement and the spin axis shifted a little more towards the batter. Either way it was spinning in away that would make you think it should move the opposite direction that it did.

https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/freddy.gif

 

[Ken B]

https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/freddy.gif

Incredibly low spin rate! Almost a knuckle!

 

[Ken B]

“Similarly, a drop curve is a poorly thrown drop ball, so the spin is not true 12-6, causing the ball to drop some and curve a little.” Love this from @sluggers

 

[Hillhouse]

“Similarly, a drop curve is a poorly thrown drop ball, so the spin is not true 12-6, causing the ball to drop some and curve a little.” Love this from @sluggers

I never understood a "drop curve". Why not just throw an outside drop? Why take a chance on one of the two things (drop or curve) don't work? With an outside drop, if it doesn't go down, at least you have an outside pitch. Isn't that better than the pitch not breaking and hanging over the plate? If your kid throws an amazing "drop curve" then great. But, I've seen way too many that didn't end up doing either, going over the plate, and ending up in the parking lot. Play it safe: throw an outside dropball. Heck, most of the kids I work with (who have a coach thinking they need 8 pitches, including a drop curve) I tell them to throw an outside drop when that pitch is called and if they hit the spot, the coach won't know the difference anyway. Same for the "screwball", I tell them to throw an inside drop since there's still far too many coaches that believe in this crap.

 

[Ken B]

I think a drop curve might be a decent pitch for a RHP against a LHB or vise-versa. Otherwise, I agree with Bill.

 

[ArmWhip]

Incredibly low spin rate! Almost a knuckle!

SSW pitches are not dependent on RPM's and the seams are what make a knuckle ball move.

A RHP's drop curve works very well against left hand hitters. When you take into account the fact that the swing is not 'level' and the bat is not parallel to the ground you can see why this pitch works against lefties. And vice versa LHP against RH hitters.

At 37 seconds you can see Rachel Garcia throw a drop curve to a left hand hitter.