Components of Internal Rotation

[diamond14]

I put these video clips together showing the backside of circle. My questions are:
1) Optimally, pitcher should pull the down with palm up as IR starts. How much angular acceleration is lost with each degree of palm rotation toward 3rd base (RHP)?
2) Forearm/Humerus angle. What is best practice for the degree of bend in the arm as the humerus approaches torso (brush).
Will a greater angle create more whip?
3) How much does humerus stability affect pitch velocity? Pitchers shown all have whip but different degrees of humeral deceleration.
Video shows a wide variety of approaches to the above three questions and obviously all pitchers shown are hugely successful. But is there a consensus of what is best?
Thanks!

 

[VAHammer]

https://paulygirlfastpitch.com/acceptable-range-of-variation/

 

[Ken B]

 

[diamond14]

Ken, I like the stills to show the different ranges of approach to release( Cat & ueno seem to have pure ball up vs Abbott with some twist toward 1st; Waldrop has large humerus/forearm angle compared to Pauly, etc). Clearly all these pitchers were super athletes and their mechanics worked for them. But most girls playing are not even close to elite level with repsect to athleticism. thus must rely on being technically nearly "perfect" to maximize their success.
So, I ask, genuinely, what do most instructors consider optimal in the three categories I initially raised? I understand that not every player is going to be able to accomplish in practice, perfection, but what should the goal be?

 

[sluggers]

So, I ask, genuinely, what do most instructors consider optimal in the three categories I initially raised? I understand that not every player is going to be able to accomplish in practice, perfection, but what should the goal be?

I'm not sure anyone worries about getting perfect IR. There is "good enough", and "good enough" varies from pitcher to pitcher. Successful pitchers have to vary the IR of the forearm changes in order to throw movement pitches.

In order to get outs, a pitcher has to have control, speed, ball movement, and the ability to change speeds.

Speed and control require IR, BI (brush interference), FSR (front side resistance) and DM (drive mechanics). BI, DM and FSR are constant for all pitches.

Ball movement and changing speeds require altering the IR of the arm during release. The hand and forearm move differently to throw a riseball, curve, drop, screw, fastball and change up.

E.g., suppose pitcher has the ball at 60 degrees rather than 90 degrees at 9. If that helps the pitcher throw a killer rise, it doesn't matter if her FB is 2 MPHs slower.

 

[Ken B]

Here's my take:
Palm up and elbow flexion are a result of being loose. The degree of elbow bend seems to vary from about 135-165. Palm angle at 9 is pitch dependent. Mostly palm up for rise and curve, whereas drop will sometimes see a little more 3B orientation. I think that lag/palm up as the result of being loose, is one of the keys to speed and spin.

Humerus stability/deceleration is essential for whip. Even Kelly Barnhill demonstrates deceleration. In all of the above clips, the humerus stops completely through release/IR. Once IR has completed, the arm continues to swing away in follow through.

Hope that was helpful...

Ken

 

[diamond14]

Ken,
That guidance is exactly what I am asking for! DD has been struggling to increase speed. I think she is trying to muscle ball (gets tight, looses flexion then muscles thru brush). She never has had terrific palm up orientation, but acceptable ( I think maybe a flexiblity issue) but it seems a bit more 3B lately. And yes her spin has degraded.
I will say if you look at Gourley clip in slomotion, I believe she doesnt show the degree of humeral stability that others do (in video) and is more what i am seeing with my DD. Worst part is DD says she feels like she is doing each element correctly but then sees herself on video and is flumoxed at her misjudgement.
Thank you, D14

 

[robertc3]

Ken,
Worst part is DD says she feels like she is doing each element correctly but then sees herself on video and is flumoxed at her misjudgement.

Tell her not to worry about this. The correlation between when someone thinks they are doing and what they are actually doing is not all that good at any age. This is why professional athletes spend lots of time studying video of themselves. In a less trained athlete the correlation is even less than in the professional athlete.

 

[ArmWhip]

If you don't have any success addressing her speed loss through mechanics I suggest you try something else. Internal cues, which use the mind to control mechanics, are useful for training but at some point they have to be left behind and you have to trust the body's innate ability to organize movement in the most efficient way possible. What does this mean on a practical level? If you are concerned about palm position at some point in the downswing then direct attention to it. If the goal is to improve velocity directing attention to palm position will probably be counterproductive. As an experiment I suggest you take a session and tell your daughter to forget about mechanics. Then give her the verbal command "move the ball through the circle as fast as you can". Or try "throw the ball through my glove". Her attention should be on the ball not on what she is doing mechanically. At some point tell her to 'be explosive'. Focus on the result you want not the mechanics of what produces the result, let the body do it's thing.

 

[Laphoneman]

I love this tread it gives perfect examples and pictures of these great pitchers clearly using IR even the ones who teach HE. I want to send it to our local HE coaches.