Coach wants a fastball

[Cannonball]

Quoted from PitchSoftball Home Page Great softball pitching hints and recommendations for girl softball pitchers

John Gay, the nationally respected pitching coach in Vancouver, Washington says : “Don't fall into the trap of thinking you can have a turn over drop that will be your fastest pitch. The fastest ball you can throw is a drop and the fastest drop you can throw, and one that has the greatest spin, is the peel drop. Just by the nature of the pitch, turning the hand over the top of the ball will slow the ball down.”

From experience, I know this to be a true statement.

Quoted for TRUTH! DD was at college camp. Coach filmed and gunned all pitches. Great camp. DD was being recruited by this camp. On "fastball" it was ok but not great. Drop was easily 4 mph faster.

A thought if coach wants a FB and you don't want her to throw it. Have DD start working on the rise. DD could get one of those up there pretty fast and since it was "up" it not only looked like a FB but being at the eyes, it was helping her develop as a pitcher who could work verticle in the zone.

 

[howellhandmade]

Could throw drop 4-seam and switch to 2-seam when a fastball is called. Everything else the same.

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

Coach-n-Dad...you should look at the various discussions we've had regarding the turnover and the peel drop.

The "hand going over the top of the ball" is a way to help the pitcher understand the movement of the hand. In fact, the hand does *NOT* go over the top of a ball when the turnover is thrown. My DD threw a great turnover drop, and her hand doesn't go over the top of the ball. I previously posted the shots of her hand at release. I was surprised by the results.

The point of the post was to point out this part: "The fastest ball you can throw is a drop and the fastest drop you can throw, and one that has the greatest spin, is the peel drop." I did not want to remove any part of the statement to make the quote appear to be "doctored".

My DD also has a very good turnover drop and although she is taught to roll her hand over the ball at delivery, that is not what actually happens. Her turnover drop is not her fastest pitch.

 

[JAD]

The number of fastballs thrown diminishes as your DD moves up in age, but most pitchers are still able to throw one. With a fastball you need one of two things - pinpoint accuracy (high, low, inside, outside) or blazing speed (4-5MPH faster than batter is used to seeing). A pitcher with both could still be throwing fastballs in college.

Am I the only one who thinks a 'bullet spin' fastball sounds like a screwball without the footwork?

Can your DD hit her spots with a peel drop? If an umpire is not calling strikes at the knees, is she able to bring it up? Can she throw a peel above the batters waist?

 

[Greenmonsters]

Assuming the same initial effort, physics dictate that a ball thrown with more spin will be slower and break more than a ball with less spin. Given this, can someone please explain how the fasted pitch a pitcher can throw is not a fastball? Or, alternatively, correct my understanding of physics.

 

[Carly]

Assuming the same initial effort, physics dictate that a ball thrown with more spin will be slower and break more than a ball with less spin. Given this, can someone please explain how the fasted pitch a pitcher can throw is not a fastball? Or, alternatively, correct my understanding of physics.

I was just going to ask the very same thing, especially regarding the peel drop. From what I understand, compared to a fastball, you throw a peel drop by a) shortening the stride a bit, instead of exploding as much as possible out toward the plate, and b) moving your hand upward at release, instead of following through with forward momentum. Wouldn't that be much like a car speeding down a straightaway and then suddenly making a sharp turn? You need to slow down to change direction, whereas to continue forward you can accelerate.

I also thought that it had been established in the many internal rotation threads on this board that the turnover of the wrist/forearm is the quickest movement your arm can make.

Now, SOME pitchers' fastest pitch MIGHT BE the peel drop, but that could be because those particular pitchers are not getting the proper action on their fastballs and they find the peel drop easier. But if each is thrown perfectly, how does the maximum potential speed of a fastball compare to that of a peel drop in general? For the reasons above, I don't understand how it can be faster. I'm not saying it's impossible; rather, I'm curious and I'd like to hear others' explanations.

I know many coaches don't share this opinion, but personally I believe 11 years old is WAY too early to have abandoned the fastball. In my experience, it's likely to be the fastest pitch, it is generally the easiest pitch to throw hard, and at age 11 there is just way too much room for speed improvement to start focusing solely on movement pitches.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

We have been told here that college coaches are not calling the FB. That is not an absolute. So, depending on where you go to HS and college, I think that a young girl, might want a FB, a CU, a drop and a rise - or at least be working on them. Not many coaches are pitching coaches and not having a FB, isn't going to compute with them.

 

[JNew0872]

"With a fastball you need one of two things - pinpoint accuracy (high, low, inside, outside) or blazing speed (4-5MPH faster than batter is used to seeing)."

Well at 45 mph, she does not have blazing speed. At 12u, she went to 3 tryouts. One team loved her which is the one she is on. Other one, she was on the "cusp" of being selected. And the 3rd team said she was too slow.

"Can your DD hit her spots with a peel drop? If an umpire is not calling strikes at the knees, is she able to bring it up?"

She does hit her spots pretty well with the peel drop and she is able to bring it up if necessary.

"Can she throw a peel above the batters waist?"

My daughter said when she throws higher in the zone, she doesn't peel her fingers as hard off the ball. She isn't taught to shorten her stride in order to throw the peel drop. She strides out 6 to 7 of her own big size 8 feet and does so whether she is throwing a drop, change, or curve.

I'm thinking that the way she peels her fingers off the ball is probably the difference for her because when she is just warming up her arm, she doesn't get a lot of drop on her ball. She said when she is warming up, she doesn't focus on peeling her fingers hard off the ball. She just works on getting warm throwing down the middle and then begins warming up location. After that she begins focusing on throwing her particular pitches.

 

[nanotech14]

I was just going to ask the very same thing, especially regarding the peel drop. From what I understand, compared to a fastball, you throw a peel drop by a) shortening the stride a bit, instead of exploding as much as possible out toward the plate, and b) moving your hand upward at release, instead of following through with forward momentum. Wouldn't that be much like a car speeding down a straightaway and then suddenly making a sharp turn? You need to slow down to change direction, whereas to continue forward you can accelerate.

I also thought that it had been established in the many internal rotation threads on this board that the turnover of the wrist/forearm is the quickest movement your arm can make.

Now, SOME pitchers' fastest pitch MIGHT BE the peel drop, but that could be because those particular pitchers are not getting the proper action on their fastballs and they find the peel drop easier. But if each is thrown perfectly, how does the maximum potential speed of a fastball compare to that of a peel drop in general? For the reasons above, I don't understand how it can be faster. I'm not saying it's impossible; rather, I'm curious and I'd like to hear others' explanations.

I know many coaches don't share this opinion, but personally I believe 11 years old is WAY too early to have abandoned the fastball. In my experience, it's likely to be the fastest pitch, it is generally the easiest pitch to throw hard, and at age 11 there is just way too much room for speed improvement to start focusing solely on movement pitches.

I can't say what other PC teach, but Hillhouse does not have you shorten your stride at all, everything is the same all the time as far as mech. goes, for the peel drop, you just release it sooner and use the same mech..

 

[starsnuffer]

Coach wants a pitch that the pitcher is hitting her spots with. If the coach is insisting on a fastball, it's usually because he/she does not have faith in the ability for the pitcher to hit her spots with other pitches. The question here should be "does she hit her spots consistently under pressure?".

-W