CALLING the PITCHES - the sequence
- Thread starter Steve Huff
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For a batter in 12U that is crowding the plate:
First pitch: FB up and in on the black;
Second pitch: c/u, low in the strike zone;
3rd pitch: FB waste pitch, low and outside off the plate (trying to get the batter to chase with two strikes);
4th pitch: FB on the black, low and outside for strike three;
5th pitch (if necessary) : same as 1st pitch
Steve- while I like your idea here with this thread, as posters have mentioned, there are so many variables such as # of outs, umpires strike zone, runners on base, score of the game, type of batters, type of pitcher, etc that make this analysis very difficult to predict.
One absolute is getting a first pitch strike, whether its a swing and miss, strike looking or foul ball. It is very important for the pitcher to get ahead in the count. The out %'s prove it.
First pitch: FB up and in on the black;
Second pitch: c/u, low in the strike zone;
3rd pitch: FB waste pitch, low and outside off the plate (trying to get the batter to chase with two strikes);
4th pitch: FB on the black, low and outside for strike three;
5th pitch (if necessary) : same as 1st pitch
Steve- while I like your idea here with this thread, as posters have mentioned, there are so many variables such as # of outs, umpires strike zone, runners on base, score of the game, type of batters, type of pitcher, etc that make this analysis very difficult to predict.
One absolute is getting a first pitch strike, whether its a swing and miss, strike looking or foul ball. It is very important for the pitcher to get ahead in the count. The out %'s prove it.
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A good slapper inside and high. Keep in mind a good slapper can power slap and drag bunt. A change up is like candy to this player, see below. , to easy to bunt for a hit. I might be wrong,but I can't recall ever watching Watley, Berg, & Mendoza getting a change up.
From a very good pitching coach he posted on his site when asked this question.
. I've seen more slap hitters than ever this year, yet every pitcher keeps throwing outside pitches to these batters. This is absolutely crazy to me. What is a slapper trying to do? He/she is trying to hit the ball to opposite field and beat out the throw from shortstop or 3rd base. They rely on their speed and are only looking for contact. Have you ever heard the expressions "Go with the pitch"? It means, you hit the ball where it's pitched. If a pitcher throws outside, you take it the other way. If they throw inside, you pull it or try to hit it back up the middle. Since a slapper WANTS to hit the ball to opposite field, I don't know why I would purposely give them the ball where they want it! Moreover, throwing riseballs to a slapper usually leads to more contact than dropballs. When a slapper is running out of the box, and the ball is rising into their field of vision, it's much easier to see/hit. If it's dropping, it's falling out of the field of vision and harder to make contact. Remember, a slappers job is CONTACT. A pitcher's job is to make it as hard as possible for them to make contact. And when they do hit it, we don't want them hitting it to the opposite side of the field. I throw down/inside to slappers 99% of the time. I'd rather them pull the ball to 1st or 2nd, which is an easier play to get them out than the long throw from opposite field.
Is this 100% accurate? No. Of course not. There will surely be times we can get slappers out with an outside pitch or a riseball. But, softball is a game of percentages. Part of winning those percentages is trying to keep the upper hand. There is no debate that it's harder for a slapper to hit the ball to opposite field when it's pitched inside and low than it would be outside. And, for what it's worth... the great slappers will always bunt the change up. I avoid throwing them with less than 2 strikes. As they are running out of the box, good slappers will recognize the change and just drop the bat onto the ball for a bunt. And with the pitch speed being slow on the change, the ball isn't going to go very far which usually means it's a great bunt. Play percentages and you'll win more than you lose... unless you're in a casino. Then you rarely win no matter what.
From a very good pitching coach he posted on his site when asked this question.
. I've seen more slap hitters than ever this year, yet every pitcher keeps throwing outside pitches to these batters. This is absolutely crazy to me. What is a slapper trying to do? He/she is trying to hit the ball to opposite field and beat out the throw from shortstop or 3rd base. They rely on their speed and are only looking for contact. Have you ever heard the expressions "Go with the pitch"? It means, you hit the ball where it's pitched. If a pitcher throws outside, you take it the other way. If they throw inside, you pull it or try to hit it back up the middle. Since a slapper WANTS to hit the ball to opposite field, I don't know why I would purposely give them the ball where they want it! Moreover, throwing riseballs to a slapper usually leads to more contact than dropballs. When a slapper is running out of the box, and the ball is rising into their field of vision, it's much easier to see/hit. If it's dropping, it's falling out of the field of vision and harder to make contact. Remember, a slappers job is CONTACT. A pitcher's job is to make it as hard as possible for them to make contact. And when they do hit it, we don't want them hitting it to the opposite side of the field. I throw down/inside to slappers 99% of the time. I'd rather them pull the ball to 1st or 2nd, which is an easier play to get them out than the long throw from opposite field.
Is this 100% accurate? No. Of course not. There will surely be times we can get slappers out with an outside pitch or a riseball. But, softball is a game of percentages. Part of winning those percentages is trying to keep the upper hand. There is no debate that it's harder for a slapper to hit the ball to opposite field when it's pitched inside and low than it would be outside. And, for what it's worth... the great slappers will always bunt the change up. I avoid throwing them with less than 2 strikes. As they are running out of the box, good slappers will recognize the change and just drop the bat onto the ball for a bunt. And with the pitch speed being slow on the change, the ball isn't going to go very far which usually means it's a great bunt. Play percentages and you'll win more than you lose... unless you're in a casino. Then you rarely win no matter what.
Understood. I did this in 30 minutes after reading quincy's post. I will have to make changes. I made some in the first post already.
SoCalSoftballDadI must say that if you have to throw off of a fastball, this is a very good post! IMHO
I want to make a note. You specified a batter crowding the plate. A batter that has an excessively closed front shoulder, is also most vulnerable to inside and high pitches. Anything from the belt up and this batter COULD be set up the same way. The closer that front foot is to the box line the better. Rise-balls, screwballs, fastballs, etc. A drop is more effective against them than it is to a normal right handed batter because the bat starts to return to the shoulder level deeper in the hitting zone, and they can't keep the bat head down and out front enough to effectively attack the pitch.
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Well SBFAMILY, you've gone and blown it now ;-) That is why I said the first slapper post opened up debate. Even the front foot orientation of most slappers, pointed at the SS to facilitate hitting to the LEFT SIDE, makes them more vulnerable to an inside pitch. They also must have a late swing, hitting deep in the zone to hit to the left side. Where is the hole in their swing? I might add that the same approach is used in Europe, and when I show them my reasoning, their eyebrows rise up. In general their only viable pitch that I see is a change-up away or as a setup off the plate.
I will say that predictability is an issue as someone stated before. But keeping that in mind, your last paragraph is well spoken. I will stop here and offer no more because I want people to think! This isn't a graphic post, but it is the debate I want. Super post!
Well SBFAMILY, who ever it is is right on the money on this one. If I disagreed with that person about 99%, it doesn't matter because this is spot on. This was what I was hoping for. You can't say who? I have old timer coaches debate this issue with me in Europe. What is knowledge? Isn't it experience plus discernment? You read it and and made a judgement, and IMHO it was smart to latch onto it.
lhowser, I don't know what age group you are with. And the truth is I can't have an opinion about pitching to younger players. I've never coached younger ages, so I don't know their weaknesses and tendencies. I don't know their skill levels. You know better than I do, and that knowledge may be specific to a region of the country. I remember watching tournament 18U State Championships in a Midwestern State about 20 years ago. The girls were athletic, but lacked knowledge about proper footwork etc. It has changed since then! But compared to the west coast and even the Rockies, I wasn't impressed. I wouldn't know what is right and wrong there. So what you posted isn't wrong per se, but for older and more skilled players what this post said is the absolute gospel.
You can submit more than once! You can submit 10 scenarios.
I have subsequently learned that the quote posted by SBFAMILY is from Bill Hillhouse's website.
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That post was from someone that posts on this site, from his forum. So I cannot take credit. I do know my dd gets hit in the helmet more times than I would like, but everyone pitches here inside and like above, you take away what we call the duck hit over the 3B side of the field." looks like a wounded duck" is how it got its name.
I do agree with this but in reality a lot of slappers watch this pitch until pitcher comes up in the zone. My scenario is pitching to the pitch they practice hitting (outside) BUT I will also say that most still have a hard time with it when pitched well. It's pretty easy to get two strikes on most slappers. Much harder to put them away. I am all for that down and in pitch BUT if you get it up you will get burnt on a pull power slap.
- Mar 11, 2009
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12u slapper:
First pitch: Rise up and in on the black in strike zone
Second pitch: Fastball low and inside strike zone
Third pitch: Screw ball off the plate.
Fourth pitch: Change up low and outside for strike three;
Fifth pitch (if needed) : same as 1st pitch
First pitch: Rise up and in on the black in strike zone
Second pitch: Fastball low and inside strike zone
Third pitch: Screw ball off the plate.
Fourth pitch: Change up low and outside for strike three;
Fifth pitch (if needed) : same as 1st pitch
tmolinaUP - DOWN - IN and OUT - Change of speed. Good mix IMHO. There are many approaches. Feel free to post another.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,649
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Let me say this about slappers; THEY MUST HAVE YOUR TIMING DOWN WELL TO SLAP. If they do not, you can have them on their tippee toes at the front of the box waiting for the ball or catch them mid stride and swinging late. Letting the batters get your timing down is an advantage for the hitter, an advantage a smart pitcher will NOT let them have.
There are many tactics you can use to destroy their timing, the runners timing too.
There are many tactics you can use to destroy their timing, the runners timing too.
