Balance between technical coaching and just playing

[oswegoponysoftball]

If you are trying to fine tune anything I recommend repetition,repetition,repetition and then put your girls in game like situations during practice where they have pressure on them to perform. The more pressure you have during practice the less they will feel during the game.

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

My belief is that is a failed philosophy. By that I mean it is absolutely, positively, necessary to "coach" a player during a game, particularly at younger ages. But I believe it is done at the college level. In fact, I know it is because I spoken with
college coaches from all 3 levels as well as a few Div. II and div. III baseball coaches.
I'm not referring to pre-game coaching. I'm speaking of coaching during the game, making adjustments to the pitcher and
adjusting the swing mechanics. For example, 2 evenigs ago my DD played a highschool game against a team coached by her summer travel ball coach from last summer. This coach knows my where the hole in my DD swing is. I told her where
they were going to pitch her the night before the game. I also told her as I always do, not to swing at any pitches that aren't in your "wheel house" unless you have to (2 strike on her). Wait for a mistake. She didn't really hear me. 1st 2 at
bats, 2 K's on 9 pitches total. As usual, no coaching from the coaches. I sat quietly in the stands shaking my head. I could see she was upset, hugely so. No coaching from her coaches. After her 2nd k I stood up and motioned to her to come over to me. When she got to me, she was yelling about the ump hurrying her and the pitcher quick pitching blah.blah blah.
I had to tell her to shut the mouth and listened to me. She did. I told her what she was doing wrong mechanically and mentally. When her team was up to bat again, she grasbbed her bat, went behind the dugout and took some dry swings correcting what we discussed. Her next at bat (you can see where this is going, can't you?) 3 pitches, all outside-low, her hole, 1 ball-2 strikes, didn't swing at any of them. The next pitch, for some odd reason, was coming inside based on the catcher's set-up. The pitcher missed the spot and left it right their, I'm pointing to middle-middle. She jumped all over it and it landed at least 250' dead center.
Was this in game coaching? I don't care what you call it, but I did what I needed to do to get a smile back on the kid's face.
I've been told by the ASSistant coach not to do this thing that the coaches will handle it. Well they don't, So I continue to.
You can't tell me and expect my to buy into it, that college don't coach their players during games. It just aint so. They do.

OK, so... First off I didn't say coaches don't coach during a game, I said I like DD's coach because he doesn't.

It's pretty clear that you are a proponent of in game coaching and I can respect that. I can also respect the fact that you saw your DD melting down and had trouble watching it. What I'm having trouble with is the fact that the assistant coach asked you not to coach your DD during a game but you did it anyways. I don't care what you call it, that's disrespectful.

I am a pitcher dad. I have seen my DD suffer and even fail during a game. I've seen her melt down and get pulled from the circle. In all cases I wanted nothing more than to comfort her and make it all better but I didn't. Do we talk about it after the game? Yes, if she brings it up. Do we work on weaknesses? Yes, but not during a game - remember that I am the parent, not the coach.

I've got to tell you; I took your post as a personal attack. It may not have been, but the wording makes it sound like one.

 

[theaddition]

OK, so... First off I didn't say coaches don't coach during a game, I said I like DD's coach because he doesn't.

It's pretty clear that you are a proponent of in game coaching and I can respect that. I can also respect the fact that you saw your DD melting down and had trouble watching it. What I'm having trouble with is the fact that the assistant coach asked you not to coach your DD during a game but you did it anyways. I don't care what you call it, that's disrespectful.

I am a pitcher dad. I have seen my DD suffer and even fail during a game. I've seen her melt down and get pulled from the circle. In all cases I wanted nothing more than to comfort her and make it all better but I didn't. Do we talk about it after the game? Yes, if she brings it up. Do we work on weaknesses? Yes, but not during a game - remember that I am the parent, not the coach.

I've got to tell you; I took your post as a personal attack. It may not have been, but the wording makes it sound like one.

I don't care what your opinion is regarding my situation.
There is no better time to coach than during a game. Paritcularly the mental side.
You go about your business in your fashion and I'll do the same.
If you don't like what I have to say, skip over my posts.
I don't need a lecture from you.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

For some coaches, a game is just another opportunity to practice ..... and since they coach during a practice, they continue to coach during a game.

 

[bullethead]

First time poster here so go easy on me - but this is an interesting thread and something I have struggled with all season. I coach a 12U team that is a mixture of 99 and 00's. I get the conventional wisdom of not coaching the hitters during the game. It was what I was taught and certainly makes sense on the surface. As a team, we have have worked really hard on transitioning to top level swings.

After seeing our girls improve significantly in practice yet continue to step up to the plate in games and act as if they have not a clue about what they did in practice - the old definition of "insanity" kept leaping to the forefront of my thought process. I finally said to heck with it. I have to get them to try their new swing in real games or they will never adopt it.

Well, we are 3 weeks down the road from my Eureka moment and I now have 5 of the 6 girls consistently applying their improved swing during tournament games. Before games, I have been telling them they are going bring their new swing to the plate during real games come heck or high water. During these 3 weeks, I have been correcting them incessantly at the plate during games. I can honestly say, it's working for us. I know it flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but it is what is. Seeing their face light up when they bust the ball (even if the other team catches it) - is priceless. "I know they caught it coach, but I really smashed that one."

Competitive individuals - whether they are coaches or players - are not always the most flexible people when it comes to ideologies. However, when something is clearly not working/happening - you have to be flexible or open minded enough to try something different. Like I tell my girls - "real change is hard" (for me too )

 

[theaddition]

First time poster here so go easy on me - but this is an interesting thread and something I have struggled with all season. I coach a 12U team that is a mixture of 99 and 00's. I get the conventional wisdom of not coaching the hitters during the game. It was what I was taught and certainly makes sense on the surface. As a team, we have have worked really hard on transitioning to top level swings.

After seeing our girls improve significantly in practice yet continue to step up to the plate in games and act as if they have not a clue about what they did in practice - the old definition of "insanity" kept leaping to the forefront of my thought process. I finally said to heck with it. I have to get them to try their new swing in real games or they will never adopt it.

Well, we are 3 weeks down the road from my Eureka moment and I now have 5 of the 6 girls consistently applying their improved swing during tournament games. Before games, I have been telling them they are going bring their new swing to the plate during real games come heck or high water. During these 3 weeks, I have been correcting them incessantly at the plate during games. I can honestly say, it's working for us. I know it flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but it is what is. Seeing their face light up when they bust the ball (even if the other team catches it) - is priceless. "I know they caught it coach, but I really smashed that one."

Competitive individuals - whether they are coaches or players - are not always the most flexible people when it comes to ideologies. However, when something is clearly not working/happening - you have to be flexible or open minded enough to try something different. Like I tell my girls - "real change is hard" (for me too )

I sounds to me like you understand what I'm getting at whereas Screwball doesn't.
To him, it seems to me, coaching is working on mechanics(swing patterns ect...) and living in the past ans addressing it when the game is over. That's very foolish.
When a hitter strikes out or doesn't perform the way they/you expect, you as a coach better go talk to the playerand address the faults, be them mental or mechanical, ASAP. Otherwise, don't expect different results in the next at bat. You can bet your rear that's what College coaches do. They've told me. Example, from a Div. II college baseball coach to me 2 years ago: (paraphrasing from a game in which his friend Tom Kelly (MN Twins) told him that If a kid is doing something wrong (at the pate) you better go and talk to him). He also said that about fielding.
He also told him to "dominate the routine plays". But that is another story.
No coaching during the game. Baloney! Why do I do this to myself??
See ya bye.

 

[Jim]

Timing is everything when it comes to teaching moments during the game. If you approach a player right after making an out or an error, your message, most likely, will not be heard. It's best to let the player cool down for a period of time, sometimes an inning or two, then address the situation in an encouraging manner that they can learn from. (That is, if it's that important to address during the game)

Telling a player that they pulled their head off the ball right after they strike out will get you nowhere fast with the player, and they will probably tune you out the next time you have something helpful for them.

I'm not big on mechanical adjustments during the game. The game is hard enough as it is without placing focus on the mechanics of the swing. More focus on mechanics means less focus on the ball. Each player is unique and some do like small instruction during the game. If you actually ask the players if they like it, most do not.

However, plan and approach adjustments are critical during the game. These should be extremely simplified and uncomplicated.

My advice would be to let the players play and compete. We had our time in the sun, now it's their turn to have impact on what happens in the game. After the game or before the next game is a better time to bring up teaching moments to the entire team that came up in the game. That way the entire team can learn from what happened. It is VERY important to bring up positive moments about the game as well as the negative. There is an opportunity for the team to learn from both. Not to mention, your credibility to the players as a coach will stay strong.

 

[theaddition]

Telling a player that they pulled their head off the ball right after they strike out will get you nowhere fast with the player, and they will probably tune you out the next time you have something helpful for them.

I'm not big on mechanical adjustments during the game. The game is hard enough as it is without placing focus on the mechanics of the swing. More focus on mechanics means less focus on the ball. Each player is unique and some do like small instruction during the game. If you actually ask the players if they like it, most do not.

However, plan and approach adjustments are critical during the game. These should be extremely simplified and uncomplicated.

My advice would be to let the players play and compete. We had our time in the sun, now it's their turn to have impact on what happens in the game. After the game or before the next game is a better time to bring up teaching moments to the entire team that came up in the game. That way the entire team can learn from what happened. It is VERY important to bring up positive moments about the game as well as the negative. There is an opportunity for the team to learn from both. Not to mention, your credibility to the players as a coach will stay strong.

Listen, I trying to be a non-combative as I possibly can be, but there is B.S. in a lot of what you stated above.
Namely, about mechanical adjustments during the game. Try to hear this:
I AM NOT ADVOCATING MAKING NEW SWING CHANGES DURING THE GAME. I AM NOT ADVOCATING ANY MECHANICAL CHANGES DURING AN AT BAT. I AM NOT ADVOCATING TALKING TO A BATTER WHEN THEY ARE AT THE PLATE, EVEN POSITIVE CRYS OF ENCOURAGEMENT. Why? Because that's what my kid asks of me during a game. She has also asked me to help her during a game if she is struggling or if I noticed anything mechanically off. You see, she understands that a coach is supposed to help a batter. Why?
because she can't see what is off during a poor at bat. The highschool head coach is fine with this, but the new rear. coach isn't. But she offers no help to my kid in particular because she is helping the less skilled players. And that pisses me off, A lot.
The head coach is busy managing the game, and thus is unavailable for consultation.
I am done with this. Talk amoungst yourselves.

 

[Jim]

She has also asked me to help her during a game if she is struggling or if I noticed anything mechanically off. You see, she understands that a coach is supposed to help a batter. Why?
because she can't see what is off during a poor at bat. I am done with this. Talk amoungst yourselves.

Thanks for being non-combative But you did say that my statement was B.S.

To think that a poor at-bat is due to something being "off" in her swing is interesting to me. So it had nothing to do with her pressing mentally to do well, or the fact that she just didn't see the ball as well as she could have, or her own focus on her mechanics took focus away from seeing the pitch, or maybe the pitcher just made good pitches to her.

Every hitter on this planet will have poor at-bats, but the majority of the poor at-bats are due to issues from the neck up, not the swing. When you see one poor swing or at-bat in a game, you want to correct the swing. That will just create the mental spiral downward.

They are not robots. There is no formula to get a hit every at-bat. They will fail... Often. The best players embrace the fact that they will fail, thus they trust their abilities.

P.S. I guess you didn't take the time to read in my post that I know some players like instruction during the game

Charlie Manuel once said this, "Full head, empty bat... Empty head, full bat!"

 

[Greenmonsters]

Thanks for being non-combative But you did say that my statement was B.S.

To think that a poor at-bat is due to something being "off" in her swing is interesting to me. So it had nothing to do with her pressing mentally to do well, or the fact that she just didn't see the ball as well as she could have, or her own focus on her mechanics took focus away from seeing the pitch, or maybe the pitcher just made good pitches to her.

Every hitter on this planet will have poor at-bats, but the majority of the poor at-bats are due to issues from the neck up, not the swing. When you see one poor swing or at-bat in a game, you want to correct the swing. That will just create the mental spiral downward.

They are not robots. There is no formula to get a hit every at-bat. They will fail... Often. The best players embrace the fact that they will fail, thus they trust their abilities.

P.S. I guess you didn't take the time to read in my post that I know some players like instruction during the game

Charlie Manuel once said this, "Full head, empty bat... Empty head, full bat!"

Manny Ramirez (aka Rain Man with a Bat) comes to mind