An ump walks into a bar....

[marriard]

Second Incident: Base ump calls their runner out at first base. Our first baseman made a long stretch for the ball. I thought she kept contact with the bag when she caught the ball and then pulled off the bag. The other coach asked for a second opinion and the plate ump asked the plate ump. The plate ump ruled the first baseman came off the bag and the player was safe. The base ump was torched. He was later overheard screaming at the plate ump in the parking lot, “Don’t you ever overrule me!”

Now that is something I have never seen before.

First incident - while he was right (you never explain another umpires call to a third party in any sport in a game you are officiating) - his way of handling it was incorrect. The correct response to questions on your partners call is "It was his call so you would have to ask him what he called" or "I didn't really see it because I was concentrating on what I was doing"

Second incident - Guaranteed this guy is also a Baseball Umpire. Baseball umpires will 'check' with their counterpart to add more 'confirmation' to their close call- they want backup, not change of call. They rarely - if ever - change a call based on a discussion unless that discussion is about 'I couldn't make a call cause I didn't see it'. I know a bunch of umpires who do both baseball and softball and I've had this discussion with quite a few of them ("I'll change a call in softball, but never in baseball")

And again - his way of handling it is out of line and incorrect.

I would suspect these guys just don't like each other and this is an ongoing issue between the two of them.

 

[left turn]

My question is the OP was calling pitches from behind the backstop? In what organization is this legal? If I missed something I apologize. Just don't know how else he is 8 feet away.

The catcher was calling pitches. I was giving coded messages about the strengths of the batters. We have been talking about common batting flaws and how to exploit them. Or if someone didn't look good swinging at a pitch (like a high one) to go back there. Smart young lady. It's great fun to see her develop. When we get a chance later, we talk about pitch selection and how to improve.

I wasn't directly behind the catcher. I was to her left. The backstop was really close. Upon reflection, I underestimated how close I was. Still I wasn't far away.

 

[left turn]

Comp wrote, "In the second situation from the post I don't know exactly how the base ump asked for the information from the plate umpire."

Here was the situation:
- Ground ball to short. Throw to first was wide left, so the 1st baseman had to stretch
- Base ump was in the outfield grass nearer to second base
- The 1st baseman stretched in the direction of the base ump
- Base ump called the runner out
- Manager complained and asked the base ump to check with the plate ump and he did
- The plate ump called the runner safe, ruling the 1st baseman's foot came off the bag before she caught the ball

The plate ump did have the best perspective. Still if the base ump didn't want to be reversed I don't really understand why he asked for a ruling from the plate ump.

 

[SCDad]

The catcher was calling pitches. I was giving coded messages about the strengths of the batters. We have been talking about common batting flaws and how to exploit them. Or if someone didn't look good swinging at a pitch (like a high one) to go back there. Smart young lady. It's great fun to see her develop. When we get a chance later, we talk about pitch selection and how to improve.

I wasn't directly behind the catcher. I was to her left. The backstop was really close. Upon reflection, I underestimated how close I was. Still I wasn't far away.

If you are not on the field of play, or the dugout, you should not be part of the game.

This behavior does not pass the sniff test. Sure, you say, there are no rules against it.

You have to live within your own skin. Others watch, draw conclusions, and make character judgments.

Much like stealing signs from the signaler on the bucket. It is not illegal, but I personally would not do it for a silly little game.

People often fail to understand why this game is played. It is a competition, sure, but it really is a group of people getting together to teach values, make friends, demonstrate character, to the young ladies learning how to grow up correctly.

Sure you want to win. I understand that. The best way to win, however, is to pitch better, hit better, and field better than the other team. And everyone at the field that day knows why, and who, won.

To go home each night and discuss the next innovation for your coding system, and plan, to try to gain an advantage, strikes me as kind of sad. The only advantage which should count is elsewhere.

Now if the players wanted to form a higher level of communication on the field, or coaches signal to them on the field of play, sure. But behind the backstop? ... again you have to live with it. The softball world gets very, very small.

In the long run, it is not helping this player you are sending these coded signals too.

 

[Comp]

- The plate ump called the runner safe, ruling the 1st baseman's foot came off the bag before she caught the ball

Again, if the base ump didnt want the information he should never have asked in the first place. But, it still is not the plate umps call to reverse. The question the base ump should have posed to the plate ump should have been along the lines of, "do you have a pulled foot at 1st base?". This is a yes or no question, not Im giving you the call and you make a safe or out call. After the question is answered the base ump can then keep or change their call.

Both umpires actions described are completely unprofessional.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I am feeling deceived by the thread title. I thought this was going to be a variation of the standard

Two umpires walk into a bar. First one turns to his partner and asks "Is this the right place?". His partner responds "Woof".

Can I make a verbal protest or does it need to be in braille?

 

[3'sDad]

Can we appeal the braille protest to the objective 3rd party?

If so his/her answer is generally "Woof" & occasionally "Bark".

You guys want arbitrary officiating - try figuring out what's being called in a field hockey match!....whistle constantly blows - unless the ball hits someones foot (a big no-no) you have no idea what the penalty is.

 

[ConorMacleod]

Again, if the base ump didnt want the information he should never have asked in the first place. But, it still is not the plate umps call to reverse. The question the base ump should have posed to the plate ump should have been along the lines of, "do you have a pulled foot at 1st base?". This is a yes or no question, not Im giving you the call and you make a safe or out call. After the question is answered the base ump can then keep or change their call.

Both umpires actions described are completely unprofessional.

Isn't this really just semantics? Sure, he didn't "overrule" him on the call. He just said that the first call was wrong and that the runner is actually safe. To whit, the runner ends up being safe, and the call is overturned. Or, I mean the base umpire decided to change his first ruling. I might have misused the term semantics here. If so, I can guarantee you somebody here will correct me.

 

[left turn]

If you are not on the field of play, or the dugout, you should not be part of the game.

This behavior does not pass the sniff test. Sure, you say, there are no rules against it.

You have to live within your own skin. Others watch, draw conclusions, and make character judgments.

Much like stealing signs from the signaler on the bucket. It is not illegal, but I personally would not do it for a silly little game.

People often fail to understand why this game is played. It is a competition, sure, but it really is a group of people getting together to teach values, make friends, demonstrate character, to the young ladies learning how to grow up correctly.

Sure you want to win. I understand that. The best way to win, however, is to pitch better, hit better, and field better than the other team. And everyone at the field that day knows why, and who, won.

To go home each night and discuss the next innovation for your coding system, and plan, to try to gain an advantage, strikes me as kind of sad. The only advantage which should count is elsewhere.

Now if the players wanted to form a higher level of communication on the field, or coaches signal to them on the field of play, sure. But behind the backstop? ... again you have to live with it. The softball world gets very, very small.

In the long run, it is not helping this player you are sending these coded signals too.

That is certainly an interesting take on the events. As a part of the coaching staff we work with the players to exploit the weaknesses of the other team. One of the coaches used to call pitches. Now the catcher and pitcher work it out. We want them to be aware of the the batter's capabilities and we talk about hitting faults and how to exploit them. The catchers are doing a great job and are picking up on it. We are doing less and less in-game work with making the catcher aware of the batter's flaws.

The whole point of pitching is to exploit a batters flaws.

To me it's not much different than shifting the outfield or infield to be in a better position for a batter that pulls the ball or is late.

The catchers are becoming more game aware and are taking charge of the play. I am proud of their development and ability to absorb and deploy information in the stressed environment of a game.

 

[Umpire]

Where was this tournament and what rules were they using?