achieving better spin

[lawdawg]

SSnuffer -
I really want you to be correct. My 13 DD throws what I equate to corkscrew - her fastball (48-50mph) moves down and in on RH hitter. Several of my fellow coaches have told me she would pick up 2-4mph with vertical spin. My response was "so what" - 52 with no movement is a lot easier to hit hard than 48 w movement. She will strike out 2 or 3 a game - usually looking by nipping the black. The rest are usually ground ball outs. She can vary speeds and has a decent change-up. NO ARM TROUBLE after 4 years. Her stock has gone up recently that we moved back to 43'. Our hard throwers are getting walloped (see 40' to 43' thread).

To the other posters - thank you. All of your insight has been enlightening (amazing how much I don't know about this dang game.)

 

[shockcoach]

I, too, am an advocate of the bullet spin.

 

[3DD'sDAD]

I am an advocate of teaching that a fastball begins as a fastball, but as speed increases, it becomes a drop ball. In higher levels of girls softball (beginning at 14U) a fastball that does not move will be hit - hard. True corkscrew spin will not, IMHO, move the ball enough to make a difference. A pitch thrown at a speed high enough with off center axis spin can move; the beginnings of a screw ball, but pure corkscrew spin will not move. There was another thread posted by Boardmember (I think) that showed variuos axis of ball rotation and the relationship between that and ball movement. We played this year against a hard thrower (for 16U - low 60's) that only threw a fastball with corkscrew spin and a changeup. It was probably the fastist pitching we faced, but also the hardest we hit balls. The fastball didn't move and our girls knew that she was aggessive and always around the plate so they took an agressive approach to hitting. I guess what I am trying to get at is that other pitchers who threw "fastballs" with true "other than 90 degree axis spin" were much harder to hit as the ball moved. There was not straight fastball.

We teach that a fastball will become a drop ball once the speed is high enough and the spin rate is high enough. That can be achieved early in a pitchers career. I can't imagine a situation where I would ask a pitcher to throw the ball as hard as she can without movement and that is what corkscrew spin is IMHO.

The articles that Starsnuffer attached were excellent - thank you. One thing I notice though was that the author stated that softball pitchers used contact by the forearm with the thigh to impart more spin. When I played that was the norm - for men at least. I do not teach that though now. I have had an old friend that pitched say "give me an hour with your daughter and I will teach her how to get more spin by snapping the thigh". I always decline respectfully. The data in the article , if I read it correctly, is from 1989, which is when the thigh slapping was still used. Hillhouse doesn't suggest this in any of his treachings that I have seen. I wonder that if this style of pitching was used extensively such that the injuries in the data were more representative of the style rather than the motion?

The thread started with the question how to get more spin. We use the Spin Rite trainer and balls with lines on them to teach "purer" spin. More spin is a result of good mechanics with pure spin. We also tell the girls to spin a ball off of their finger tips while watching TV etc. It becomes second nature after a while. The Revfire is a great tool to measure spin rate.

 

[lawdawg]

True corkscrew spin will not, IMHO, move the ball enough to make a difference. A pitch thrown at a speed high enough with off center axis spin can move; the beginnings of a screw ball, but pure corkscrew spin will not move. There was another thread posted by Boardmember (I think) that showed variuos axis of ball rotation and the relationship between that and ball movement. . . . The thread started with the question how to get more spin. We use the Spin Rite trainer and balls with lines on them to teach "purer" spin. More spin is a result of good mechanics with pure spin. We also tell the girls to spin a ball off of their finger tips while watching TV etc. It becomes second nature after a while. The Revfire is a great tool to measure spin rate.

I searched for that thread - haven't found yet. However, did find lots on topic. The general consensus (if possible) was that corkscrew type spin did produce consistent 2-plane movement - like a "cut" fastball. Hillhouse, et al. explain finger pressure and angle of attack combine to produce vertical drop and horizontal shift. Also, most seem to agree that the true football type single axis spin does not produce much movement - but that seems almost impossible to throw - without arm/wrist stress.

Nonetheless, my 13DD - who rarely scares 50mph - throws what I characterize as corkscrew fb. The ball breaks down and in on RHH. This is not hard to hit but is difficult to hit hard - especially when kept down in zone. She makes the middle infielders look great (an out is an out). The reason I keep inquiring and am trying to wrap my brain around this is that my 10DD new coach exclusively teaches vertical/drop type spin for fb. Thus, I've got 2 DDs on different paths to same place. Thanks for all of your input - really helping me. This is great sight Ken/Marc.

I too advocate kids spinning ball at home, in car, etc. We all seem to agree this will help.

 

[Madsdad]

Law dawg,
I think the thread you are looking for is titled IR/drop explanation 12/30/09.

 

[lawdawg]

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/2088-ir-drop-explanation-spin.html

Found it - some help, thx. The more I learn, the less I know about pitching.