- Oct 19, 2009
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A good informative post from a parent.
9 yr old pitching too much?
- Thread starter RandomDad
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A good informative post from a parent.
That myth is only true, if we are talking about a slow pitch delivery. Yes, when I played, the same old lady would pitch every game, every weekend, for maybe 4 games a weekend. She used a sling shot delivery and threw a bunch of junk. The sling shot is probably safer than the windmill, because you do not take the ball over and past your shoulder.
One other thing that adds to pitching woes (and this happened to my DD), is that some girls "engage" the shoulder twice, during each delivery. Much to my dismay, Caitlin started raising the ball with both hands high over her head, which caused the shoulder to work twice as hard, each pitch.
A good windmill pitcher does not have to huff and puff and jerk and snap. Efficiency is what we are after.
- Sep 6, 2011
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I agree with MandM on misinformation and thats why I posted on this issue because myself and my DD are a product of misinformation and it caught up to us. Lets just say we will play a whole different ball game this season (safer, healthier). Parents and some coaches is what I'm refering to when I say they need to get educated on the over use injuries. I don't want you to think I was refering the posters on this forum. I have learned a lot right here in this forum. thanks
"Denny Throneburg, a two-time national high school coach of the year, warned parents of these dangers in his pitching camp this morning. Throneburg, who has also won six state softball championships at Casey-Westfield High School, said a pitch limit depends on a pitcher's age. Girls under age 12 should be limited to 60 pitches a game, while those 14 and under can throw 80 and high schoolers can toss 100. But he warned that these girls should not pitch on back to-back days. Pitchers need to rest their bodies to avoid pulls and muscle tears, among other things. In camps, Throneburg tells the girls to smile, have fun and to earn good grades. My kind of coach. Clearly, he knows a little about winning, too."
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I will have to keep closer track of how many pitches our pitchers make in a game but I am guessing they are pitching more than 80 a day simply because they play 3-4 games a day in a tournament . Our team is very fortunate in that we have 4 pitchers that we use in games and 2 more who practice with our pitching coaches trying to earn their way into the circle . That being said we are definitely the exception to the rule .
Most teams around here are lucky to have 2 pitchers and its usually one really good pitcher and another who can throw the ball into the strike zone albeit not with much speed . I have noticed a lot of these teams will do very well early on in the tournament but by Sunday their #1 pitcher is worn out and they go from run ruling everyone to getting run ruled themselves .
What should a travel team coach do if they cannot keep the number of pitches down for his girls due to the limited number of skilled pitchers they have ? When the pitch count is reached should they withdraw from the tournament ? Or do you think they should give up TB and try to move their team to a league where they only play 1 game a day a few days a week ?
Most teams around here are lucky to have 2 pitchers and its usually one really good pitcher and another who can throw the ball into the strike zone albeit not with much speed . I have noticed a lot of these teams will do very well early on in the tournament but by Sunday their #1 pitcher is worn out and they go from run ruling everyone to getting run ruled themselves .
What should a travel team coach do if they cannot keep the number of pitches down for his girls due to the limited number of skilled pitchers they have ? When the pitch count is reached should they withdraw from the tournament ? Or do you think they should give up TB and try to move their team to a league where they only play 1 game a day a few days a week ?
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Stop caring about winning pool games and get their #2 and #3 lots of circle time. If your #1 is awesome then seeding can be meaningless. People HATED playing us first up on Sunday because they knew we were always working on developing players on Saturday and we were a much better (and extremely dangerous) team once eliminations were on.
Our goal on Saturday is to win a game so you don't go against the top seed and if possible avoid the 8:00am game.
With this we normally ended up pitching our #1 first game of elims and then there was a good chance of a weaker team in the second game of elims or a team pitching their #2 where we could pitch our #2 & #3 and the third game we would generally be back with our #1. You get your #2 & #3 in as often as you can (softball is great because you can reenter your #1).
Eventually you end up with a #1 and a solid #2 and a good #3. Then you are REALLY dangerous because you start winning pool games consistently with all of your pitchers and have LOTS of options for Sunday.
You have to COMMIT to pitcher and player development for this to work - and it can take a lot of time and patience. And YES, at some stage you will have to leave your #2 or #3 out there in eliminations and lose the tournament because your #1 is done for the day or the next few hours or whatever. That is something you have to accept.
Alternate Shortcut: Recruit another pitcher from another team or hope one falls in your lap. My DD on her current team is literally the "player who fell into the team's lap" when we decided to join a particular 10U-A team for the summer.
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Great info, and very helpful to us as our 8-yr old DD starts All-Stars in a week. I brought this issue up to our league when they scheduled our team to play in four consecutive games because I was concerned about my DD. The league president changed our schedule (one was a make-up, one 1st half playoff game, two 2nd half games) after we complained.
My point is to give you his opinion on over-use, sent in this email:
--There are a lot of opinions out there about the risks of injury to pitchers’ arms (softball, baseball, softball vs baseball, etc). Almost all of the real data/studies have been done with regard to baseball, though there are some empiric studies (and ones with limited sample sizes) done with softball pitchers. “Pitch counts” are now the vogue, though this is fairly controversial and can be argued both ways. In general, softball injuries are focused in the anterior shoulder/biceps tendon area and lower extremities (hips/knees) and are as much a function of mechanics as overwork.
What is “overwork”? Hard to say in softball. My brother is one of the top orthopedic surgeons in the western US and practices in Colorado. Has worked at the Olympic Training Center and Craig Clinic in Vail, and specializes in shoulder and elbow injuries. What he tells me is that the best evidence supports that daily pitching, 24 hours rest between, 100-150 pitches with focus on proper mechanics is absolutely safe and serves to strengthen (not damage) the involved muscle/tendon/ligament groups. But common sense is important. If pain or discomfort are present….obviously rest is in order.
One fallacy that is commonly stated out there in the softball community is that the underhand windmill motion is “more natural” and potentially “less dangerous” than overhand pitching. That’s a crock and has been proven so.------------
I'm guessing the orthopedic doctor brother worked with older athletes, and that's why those pitch counts are at that level. For my DD, it seems she has proper mechanics and can throw 70-80 pitches a day. However, we will stick with pitching every other day for now.
Thanks to everyone for their insight.
My point is to give you his opinion on over-use, sent in this email:
--There are a lot of opinions out there about the risks of injury to pitchers’ arms (softball, baseball, softball vs baseball, etc). Almost all of the real data/studies have been done with regard to baseball, though there are some empiric studies (and ones with limited sample sizes) done with softball pitchers. “Pitch counts” are now the vogue, though this is fairly controversial and can be argued both ways. In general, softball injuries are focused in the anterior shoulder/biceps tendon area and lower extremities (hips/knees) and are as much a function of mechanics as overwork.
What is “overwork”? Hard to say in softball. My brother is one of the top orthopedic surgeons in the western US and practices in Colorado. Has worked at the Olympic Training Center and Craig Clinic in Vail, and specializes in shoulder and elbow injuries. What he tells me is that the best evidence supports that daily pitching, 24 hours rest between, 100-150 pitches with focus on proper mechanics is absolutely safe and serves to strengthen (not damage) the involved muscle/tendon/ligament groups. But common sense is important. If pain or discomfort are present….obviously rest is in order.
One fallacy that is commonly stated out there in the softball community is that the underhand windmill motion is “more natural” and potentially “less dangerous” than overhand pitching. That’s a crock and has been proven so.------------
I'm guessing the orthopedic doctor brother worked with older athletes, and that's why those pitch counts are at that level. For my DD, it seems she has proper mechanics and can throw 70-80 pitches a day. However, we will stick with pitching every other day for now.
Thanks to everyone for their insight.
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