12yo Maddie

Spartans21 said:

Alright you lost me.......I would say Maddie is really quiet in her loading process, nothing is to the extreme. Not sure what you are referencing .......Also not sure I understand the "hips are following too much" line?

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The swing is a top down sequence. It looks good like the rotation is good, although when you break it down the sequence is top down. If you look at the swing both heels are down when the shoulders begin to turn. The hips are not leading the sequence. I'm talking about the gif posted. The back knee is late pressing forward when the front foot plants.

It's not all about creating rotation, which can be seen in the clip. Rotation is just part of what you want. The break down at contact is partly due to the fact that the swing is a top down sequence, nothing left (nothing pulling earlier in the swing).

I would say that a lack of loading and trying to do everything from release contributes to the sequence problems. Jim Dixon once said that it takes longer for a good swing to be created. We can find many, many, swings that have a larger negative move then what I posted of Griffey. What Griffey does extremely well is walk away from the hands and "sits" into rotation extremely well. Griffey and Bonds are poster boys for sitting into rotation.

Because she looks rushed by starting late, she doesn't sit into rotation. The back knee doesn't flex or press the front foot down. Therefor the hips are late. If you look at the Grffey clip you can see both heel in the air at the same time, because he sits into rotation so well.

there are others things I don't like, like posture, but I'll let you respond (or anyone) before going into more detail. Bottom line is don't fooled into what appears to be rotation, there is a real sequence problem with the swing.

Here's closer look at Griffey for comparison of the two swings

Shawn said:

Because she looks rushed by starting late, she doesn't sit into rotation. The back knee doesn't flex or press the front foot down. Therefor the hips are late. If you look at the Grffey clip you can see both heel in the air at the same time, because he sits into rotation so well.

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I like this. I think instruction along the lines of "flex the back knee to press the foot down" is something that can be incorporated very easily, and will help improve her FBC action. I do agree that her hips are late. Evolving her swing away from a "turn everything together" movement is still a work in progress.

The way she's hitting the ball now is pretty decent for a 12yo - that recent gif clip was a 190'-ish fly ball that she got a little too far under. Knowing there's more power still in the tank is damned exciting.

Shawn, I think that those are some good comments. Isn't it funny that people see things so much differently in the same videos? I don't see things the same as some of the comments but understand why you see what you say you see.

RD, I had an alert that you quoted me and so, I typed up a response. RD, please keep in mind that I am an "ex expert" and so, these are the thoughts of a guy who doesn't know much of what he is talking about:

Well, as Shawn mentioned, the hip flexion into the sitting position is critical to an efficient swing. There are all kinds of discussions on “tilt.” Both lateral and pelvic tilt are critical to getting the barrel of the bat to the ball. It isn’t as simple as “turning the barrel.” Oh, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that “turning the barrel” is simple but I have always subscribed to the notion that the core hits the ball. If I were coaching Eric’s dd, I’d do a few things to work on that like the chair drill that we do.

RD, it is always easy for me to see who’s philosophies the various posters align with. I have an idea about Shawn and he’s been around for a very long time. I know he has studies a lot of gurus. I also have a notion about who’s stuff you follow/use. Note, that it doesn’t matter as long as it makes sense to you and you can coach it. However, terms like, “coming off the merry go round” are interpreted differently and according to whomever stuff you study. For me, and what I’ve studied, “coming off the merry go round” means that the hands come into “connection” with the shoulder complex, rides that for a brief time and then, disconnection begins (off the merry go round) as a part of the transition to whip. I don’t think you think of that term that way. Perhaps I am wrong.

Also, when you posted the videos of Stanton and Miggy, and suggest that one is spine axis and one is forearm axis, I see similar swings with ball location being vastly different. The ball Miggy hits is off the end of his bat. (About 4 inches left on the end I’d guess.) The ball Stanton hits is inside. While they are not matches and I don’t want to suggest that they are matches, I see the back hip straightening the front knee. So, I see similarities in the lower body. I believe that and I know many don’t.

RD, a question I often ask is what causes that front foot plant. Is it a pulling action on that back hip? Is it a pulling action on that front hip? Well, I opt for the back hip. Yes, I believe that there is resistance on the back side. To think otherwise is foolish. However, I believe that the hips and shoulders fight each other. (Serape Effect) The hips are leading the way while the shoulder complex does its best to stay where it is and so stretch or what some used to call, “X Stretch” is created. I do think that the sitting action puts the foot down BUT on the side of that back foot and the back knee kicks down toward the front knee. The result is “the move” as some call it or an unweighted of the backside as others call it. RD, imo, the “coil” and the hip action is the load and that is controlled by the core. So, there you go.

Edited to add:

I would also work on Eric's dd's load. I think that simply telling someone to rotate the trunk is losing out on the load. The back hip loads with a sense of sticking that back cheek out. The front hip doesn't spin in toward the plate in most hitters but rather creates Resistance as the back hip loads backward. then, the hitter strides forward by coil, (pulling the bow back, tip and rip happened with bow action) back hip fights, leaves, back knee down toward front ... top half resist, ... hands into connection, ride, off merry go round, whip ...

Thank you for your response.

For me, and what I’ve studied, “coming off the merry go round” means that the hands come into “connection” with the shoulder complex, rides that for a brief time and then, disconnection begins (off the merry go round) as a part of the transition to whip. I don’t think you think of that term that way. Perhaps I am wrong.

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That's what I did think of the term 'Merry-go-round but, I believe the barrel/bat is 'connected'/'pinned' to the shoulders rotation. I believe the barrel/bat is connected to the rotation of the shoulders rotation around and then the bat is 'flung' towards the ball during that time adjustment is made to the ball. I would like the hands acting independently of the resisting shoulder rotation and not connected/pinned to the shoulders.

Eric F said:

I like this. I think instruction along the lines of "flex the back knee to press the foot down" is something that can be incorporated very easily, and will help improve her FBC action. I do agree that her hips are late. Evolving her swing away from a "turn everything together" movement is still a work in progress.

The way she's hitting the ball now is pretty decent for a 12yo - that recent gif clip was a 190'-ish fly ball that she got a little too far under. Knowing there's more power still in the tank is damned exciting.

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Yes she tries to rotate everything together. Notice that she has nothing left and tries to over rotate the shoulders at contact.

The whole "fly-off-the-merry-go-round" thing is an area that isn't totally clear for me. My understanding of the term relates to the hands and bat turning as a unit with the rear shoulder for a short period of time. I definitely see that component in Maddie's swings.

I see it with Stanton...


I also see it with Posey...


...Mig...


...Encarnacion...


Are there examples I should be looking at where it isn't happening?

It isn’t as simple as “turning the barrel.

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I also don't believe that also...there's more to just 'turning the barrel' to the ball. There's the loading of getting the bat into position as the eyes read the incoming pitch. I also believe in 'turn the barrel forward towards the ball'. I also don't study one 'Guru' nor consider any one a Guru but, that's getting off topic.

This thread is about Maddie so......maybe this is a question Eric should be asking or has ask by PM.

If I were coaching Eric’s dd, I’d do a few things to work on that like the chair drill that we do.

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