HOW do you Teach TILT!

[RayR]

Leading with the elbow is not automatically bat drag....man, are you lost....every good hitter leads with the elbow...teaching it out of them is more problematic and shows a lack of understanding....pitch you low and away all day long with your method....and then bust you inside for good measure...

Leading with the back elbow is bat drag and lengthens the swing. You see it a bit more in fast pitch, but it's still rare because it's problematic.

Also, the only way to judge the actual position of the elbow is with a direct side-on view like my clip of Bush. Notice how I was in line with the front edge of the plate.

None of your clips were shot from that angle.

Given how Mendoza drops her hands in the clip below, I'd throw her in the, "Don't try this at home," camp.

Just because a gifted athlete can get away with something, it doesn't mean it's something the people should be coaching into, or not coaching out of, their daughters.

 

[RayR]

Ha! Didn't mean to make you crazy....but it is a pretty good 3some, huh?

Mendoza ,Bush,& Mohegan all in the same post!!!!What are you trying to do? MTS give me a heart attack! The owner of the facility where my dd trains,told me once why, would you want to copy them?

 

[Chris O'Leary]

every good hitter leads with the elbow

Nonsense.

While there's some elbow slotting in this clip, there's no leading with the back elbow.

Perhaps that's why you ignored this clip?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thanks to everyone for posting these videos. All of these swings have one thing in common, no sign of "push" with the rear leg. If you watch the rear leg/foot, the leg does not straighten, and the foot/toes do not flatten or push off the ground, untill after contact. If there were push in the stride, I would expect to these same motions during the stride. The motions of the rear leg indicate it is being pulled forward by the hip, instead of pushing the hip forward.

The 'push' that CY is describing occurs during the shift into heel plant ... during the uncoiling of the rear leg.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Here's a AAA guy who does have a problem with leading with his back elbow.

He can kill the ball at AAA but not in the big leagues.

I would never teach a kid to do something that will cause them to top out.

P.S. The leading with the back elbow is the result of being taught to pull the knob to the ball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Game swings don't necessarily reflect what a player was taught, or even what they were attempting to do. There are too many variables to realistically expect perfect swings in games.

At best, one can try to teach a fundamentally perfect swing and hope to see it happen in the game. If bat drag, or some other flaw, slips in that doesn't mean the batter won't get a good hit; but it should be understood that that may not be the way they wanted to swing.

Softballphreak, I know you aren't saying these swings above contain 'bat drag' ... but I want to point out that 'bat drag' is not a position, but is technically the act of 'dragging the barrel'. Just because the front elbow may temporarily lead, does not mean the barrel is being dragged. One does not have to wait for a relationship of the rear elbow to be leading the hands at the RVP connection point to determine if a swing contains 'bat drag' ... as 'bat drag' can be observed sooner than this.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Leading with the elbow is not automatically bat drag....man, are you lost....every good hitter leads with the elbow...teaching it out of them is more problematic and shows a lack of understanding....pitch you low and away all day long with your method....and then bust you inside for good measure...

First bold above .... you are spot on!

Second bold above ... exactly, and we see issues with this as some approaches attempt to place a bandaide to cover up their incorrect understanding of 'bat drag' and instead end up limiting a hitter's ability to whip.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[Chris O'Leary]

First, this isn't leading with the back elbow because the correct point of reference is whether the back elbow gets ahead of the plane of the shoulders, the back hip, and the knob. If you rotate this image in your head 90 degrees, you can see that her back elbow is behind all three.[1]

Second, her shoulders are reverse-rotated more than usual, so the look of this is exaggerated in Bush's case

This is what we are trying to avoid.

Notice how the back elbow is ahead of the back hip, the plane of the shoulders, and the knob.

Also, the forearm of the back arm is lagging behind the elbow just as a thrower's forearm lags behind their elbow and the bat lags behind the hands.

[1] A big problem with this analysis stuff is the many people seem to be unable to think in three dimensions. They flatten out the image and are unable to rotate it in their heads to get a true sense of the relationships of the different body parts. This man isn't actually a giant who is about to crush the Eiffel Tower...

P.S. I try to shoot my clips from a position in line with the front edge of the plate because it reduces the likelihood of this kind of confusion.

 

[nanotech14]

Ha! Didn't mean to make you crazy....but it is a pretty good 3some, huh?

Look how long their strides are.I don't think I would ever suggest such long strides,Dustin Pedroia has a long stride too,he is my dd and I favorite MLB player,but all these hitters are so good.I look at how low their heads drop,but they seem to adjust so well,I would think it would cause problems with tracking the ball with their eyes since the head moves so much.