HOW do you Teach TILT!

[Chris O'Leary]

this is megan bush....

Awesome.

Bush has a pretty much textbook swing and a side view shows no sign of bat drag.

Perhaps the problem is that you're looking at a first base line view.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Is another way to think about it that the load/unload (or coil/uncoil) starts in the hips, but isn't significant until it moves down into the leg/foot and meets resistance in the cleat/dirt and comes back up to the hips???

If the back foot, or both feet, was on a sheet of ice then the swing wouldn't be nearly as powerful because the hips wouldn't have anything to work against.

 

[RayR]

Who said anything about bat drag? I said the elbow leads the hands....

Awesome.

Bush has a pretty much textbook swing and a side view shows no sign of bat drag.

Perhaps the problem is that you're looking at a first base line view.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Who said anything about bat drag? I said the elbow leads the hands....

Who cares if it doesn't create bat drag?

Good hitters are generally right on the edge of bat drag (but they don't go over it).

What you might be seeing is the result of larger than average reverse-rotation of the shoulders by Bush.

P.S. This clip shows Bush hitting a pitch that's way inside, so she has to get extremely compact in order to keep the ball fair and not pull-hook it.

 

[softballphreak]

I've been trying to grasp this and got to thinkin' (for better or worse). What if a player didn't have a back leg (but somehow could still have an otherwise good basic stance!)? They wouldn't have a very strong swing, right?

Is another way to think about it that the load/unload (or coil/uncoil) starts in the hips, but isn't significant until it moves down into the leg/foot and meets resistance in the cleat/dirt and comes back up to the hips???

IMO, there is a very brief moment at heel plant where the inside ball of the rear foot drives (starts) the forward motion (the hip shares that motion with the foot). The hip immediately takes over fully as it thrust-rotates, pulling the rear leg and back foot with it.

 

[RayR]

Sooo....do good hitters lead with their elbow or not?

In some ways.

They are both movements that require posture and athleticism (which is why I think the skipping rock cue is only valuable in terms of posture).

You also see hip/shoulder separation in both.

However, hitters don't drive off of their back legs like FP and baseball pitchers do and the moving segments are very different from the swing to the throw. Teaching hitters to swing like they throw can create terrible problems with bat drag (because in the throw you have to lead with your elbow but in the swing you don't want to).

P.S. There are zero no-stride pitchers while there are any no-stride hitters, and the problem with Yeager's model is that it can't explain a true no-stride swing.

This page has other FLA hitters...http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting-technical/2785-model-swings-29.html

Should probably tell this player that

in the throw you have to lead with your elbow but in the swing you don't want to

If I get to see Mendoza at Mohegan again I will be sure to pass along your thoughts...she could have been a good hitter...

 

[nanotech14]

Mendoza ,Bush,& Mohegan all in the same post!!!!What are you trying to do? MTS give me a heart attack! The owner of the facility where my dd trains,told me once why, would you want to copy them?

 

[FPMark]

Thanks to everyone for posting these videos. All of these swings have one thing in common, no sign of "push" with the rear leg. If you watch the rear leg/foot, the leg does not straighten, and the foot/toes do not flatten or push off the ground, untill after contact. If there were push in the stride, I would expect to these same motions during the stride. The motions of the rear leg indicate it is being pulled forward by the hip, instead of pushing the hip forward.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Sooo....do good hitters lead with their elbow or not?

Leading with the back elbow is bat drag and lengthens the swing. You see it a bit more in fast pitch, but it's still rare because it's problematic.

Also, the only way to judge the actual position of the elbow is with a direct side-on view like my clip of Bush. Notice how I was in line with the front edge of the plate.

None of your clips were shot from that angle.

Given how Mendoza drops her hands in the clip above, I'd throw her in the, "Don't try this at home," camp.

Just because a gifted athlete can get away with something, it doesn't mean it's something the people should be coaching into, or not coaching out of, their daughters.

 

[softballphreak]

Game swings don't necessarily reflect what a player was taught, or even what they were attempting to do. There are too many variables to realistically expect perfect swings in games.

At best, one can try to teach a fundamentally perfect swing and hope to see it happen in the game. If bat drag, or some other flaw, slips in that doesn't mean the batter won't get a good hit; but it should be understood that that may not be the way they wanted to swing.