Bat Path

[DRDRODD]

It would be called...something else is pulling on the rubber band, and the rubber band is not "eccentrically contracting" itself. The resulting "tension" was put onto or into the rubber band by something else.

But the bigger question is...do you believe that muscles are like rubber bands in how they work?

They contain some elastic properties but if I am being honest I don't know if I would say they work like rubber bands or not. Muscles can be contracted rubber bands are in a constant state of contraction while at rest. So I guess my answer is in some ways they do work like rubber bands and other ways they don't.

My question for you is, do you think Fascia is stuck to the muscle that it surrounds?

 

[DRDRODD]

Be back later ✌

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Trying to better understand myself. Looks like Myofasical kind of ties muscles and bones together into one like the body is one continuous piece of elastic ?

That was a really good video TDS, thank you for that, makes my explanation a lot easier...

As it explains how fascia ties or holds things together, but that it doesn't have potential energy properties. At the 2:38 minute mark she even talks about how facia holds (or wraps per her demo) the muscle cells/strands together...in a very similar way that the plastic wrap holds (or wraps) the bungee cords together in my earlier attempted explanation of it.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

They contain some elastic properties but if I am being honest I don't know if I would say they work like rubber bands or not. Muscles can be contracted rubber bands are in a constant state of contraction while at rest. So I guess my answer is in some ways they do work like rubber bands and other ways they don't.

Thank you, I think that's a really good answer. As while I personally don't believe they're like rubber bands in how they work, I can agree that there is some resting contractual state that certain muscles are in at times, so I can equate at least a similarity to the rubber band in that case or situation.

My question for you is, do you think Fascia is stuck to the muscle that it surrounds?

I'm not 100% sure of the exact question being asked (not a problem, my fault, not yours), but I'll take a shot at it as I'm understanding it...Yes and no.

I believe "yes", that it's "stuck to the muscle" as in being attached to or encased around the muscle (see my kitchen video) holding things together if that's what you mean.

But "no" in the fact that it expands, and contracts in accordance to the movement of the muscle itself...and only gets "stuck to the muscle" if or as it hardens or starts losing some of its elasticity that allows it to expand and contract around the muscle.

That's were you'll start getting decreased muscle mobility, and where manipulative fascial release techniques come into play, but we're getting off on a whole different tangent with that, so I'll stop at there...if that's what you're asking.

We'll talk later, I have to run as well. Peace out. ☮

 

[DRDRODD]

Below is a few important take away's from a quick search that I conducted and it explains a lot IMO. The findings are from two separate articles & sites.

Fascia is the most energy efficient material in the body. For example, when your bicep contracts and shortens, your tricep's fascia is stretched, and when your bicep stops contracting, you tricep does not need to contract to bring your arm back to the starting position because the fascia acts like a rubber band and simply springs you back.


What rocked the medical community's world was this: Fascia isn't just plastic wrap. Fascia can contract and feel and impact the way you move. It's our richest sense organ, it possess the ability to contract independently of the muscles it surrounds and it responds to stress without your conscious command. That's a big deal. It means that fascia is impacting your movements, for better or worse. It means that this stuff massage therapists and physical therapists and orthopedists have right at their fingertips is the missing variable, the one they've been looking for.

 

[DRDRODD]

Thank you, I think that's a really good answer. As while I personally don't believe they're like rubber bands in how they work, I can agree that there is some resting contractual state that certain muscles are in at times, so I can equate at least a similarity to the rubber band in that case or situation.


I'm not 100% sure of the exact question being asked (not a problem, my fault, not yours), but I'll take a shot at it as I'm understanding it...Yes and no.

I believe "yes", that it's "stuck to the muscle" as in being attached to or encased around the muscle (see my kitchen video) holding things together if that's what you mean.

But "no" in the fact that it expands, and contracts in accordance to the movement of the muscle itself...and only gets "stuck to the muscle" if or as it hardens or starts losing some of its elasticity that allows it to expand and contract around the muscle.

That's were you'll start getting decreased muscle mobility, and where manipulative fascial release techniques come into play, but we're getting off on a whole different tangent with that, so I'll stop at there...if that's what you're asking.

We'll talk later, I have to run as well. Peace out. ☮

Maybe you are right & I am wrong with regards to the elasticity of muscles. It may be just the fascia that contains the elasticity

 

[Mudders Brudder]

OK, one last one before I have to take off for sure...since I saw this before I logged off....

Below is a few important take away's from a quick search that I conducted and it explains a lot IMO. The findings are from two separate articles & sites.

Fascia is the most energy efficient material in the body. For example, when your bicep contracts and shortens, your tricep's fascia is stretched, and when your bicep stops contracting, you tricep does not need to contract to bring your arm back to the starting position because the fascia acts like a rubber band and simply springs you back.

Does this really happen when you do it? When I contract my bicep (stretching my tricep), if/when I relax my bicep, my arm doesn't just spring back into its original starting position due to any rebounding effect of the fascia. It either just sits there in the place I move it to...or gravity takes over, and it falls back into position.

But tricep fascia that expanded/lengthen during the bicep's concentric contraction, doesn't then pull the lengthened tricep muscle to extend the arm back down again. If it did, whenever you did a bicep curl, and rested/relaxed the bicep at the top of the exercise with the barbell against your chest....and under the "Myofasical System" you're proposing, the triceps would "rubber band" the arms/barbell back down, and we know that's not at all what happens in real life.

What rocked the medical community's world was this: Fascia isn't just plastic wrap. Fascia can contract and feel and impact the way you move. It's our richest sense organ,

it possess the ability to contract independently of the muscles it surrounds and it responds to stress without your conscious command. That's a big deal. It means that fascia is impacting your movements, for better or worse. It means that this stuff massage therapists and physical therapists and orthopedists have right at their fingertips is the missing variable, the one they've been looking for.

Yes, I just explained that one post above with...

But "no" in the fact that it expands, and contracts in accordance to the movement of the muscle itself...and only gets "stuck to the muscle" if or as it hardens or starts losing some of its elasticity that allows it to expand and contract around the muscle.

That's were you'll start getting decreased muscle mobility, and where manipulative fascial release techniques come into play, but we're getting off on a whole different tangent with that, so I'll stop at there...if that's what you're asking.

...you're just trying to read things into it that the papers just aren't saying.

Here's a nice write up wrt all of it in "The Journal of The American Osteopathic Association" (https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2094459) who by the nature of their discipline are a little less austere than traditional medicine tends to be, and where I'm finding the majority of the information about "biotensegrity" that I'm sharing above.

Also, what did you think of TDS's video? Did it or I miss the part about the Myofasical System adding additional force application to the muscles as you're saying it's doing?

 

[DRDRODD]

OK, one last one before I have to take off for sure...since I saw this before I logged off....

Does this really happen when you do it? When I contract my bicep (stretching my tricep), if/when I relax my bicep, my arm doesn't just spring back into its original starting position due to any rebounding effect of the fascia. It either just sits there in the place I move it to...or gravity takes over, and it falls back into position.

You mean to tell me that when you fully contract your bicep, squeezing it as hard as you can then release it, it doesn't spring back up a little?? Be for real........... the rebounding would have to pull the entire weight of the arm but The tighter you are the more rebound you will get..... Not trying to be rude but you are getting up there in age also. Your fascia is probably a little tired . Which tight people are typically the best movers as far as swing movements are concerned IMHO.

But tricep fascia that expanded/lengthen during the bicep's concentric contraction, doesn't then pull the lengthened tricep muscle to extend the arm back down again. If it did, whenever you did a bicep curl, and rested/relaxed the bicep at the top of the exercise with the barbell against your chest....and under the "Myofasical System" you're proposing, the triceps would "rubber band" the arms/barbell back down, and we know that's not at all what happens in real life.
Have you ever seen someone lay down on a bench and attempt to do a bench press that they knew they couldn't press back up. Lets go through the actions taken. The presser lifts the barbell off of the the rack (usually needs help to do so) holding it in place. Their presser muscles are contracted.... Then there is usually a very slow and controlled movement down to the chest. Now it's time to press the weight off of the chest and nothing happens. Explain to me why you believe that is? There is a reason why our bodies are stronger while do "negative" lifts and it has to do with leverage.


Yes, I just explained that one post above with...
...you're just trying to read things into it that the papers just aren't saying.

Here's a nice write up wrt all of it in "The Journal of The American Osteopathic Association" (https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2094459) who by the nature of their discipline are a little less austere than traditional medicine tends to be, and where I'm finding the majority of the information about "biotensegrity" that I'm sharing above.
I see it was published in 2013.... This stuff is still VERY new to the medical world pretty much everything that I have posted has been published in the last 3 years. The advancements in the medical field seems to change very rapidly but you would know better than me since you worked in it for 30 years.

Also, what did you think of TDS's video? Did it or I miss the part about the Myofasical System adding additional force application to the muscles as you're saying it's doing?
They just talked about the layout of it, not the function right? I will go back and watch again in case I missed the function part.

see response in Red

 

[Buttermaker]

Can't use a cow as an example. The cow stands in pretty much one place it's whole life. It's fascia system stiffens up. Use it or lose it as the saying goes.

Google biotensegrity.

 

[Shawn]

Drdrodd

What books did you read to study the fascia, tensegrity? Do you have Joey Myers book and videos?