Bat Path

[Shawn]

Below is a few important take away's from a quick search that I conducted and it explains a lot IMO. The findings are from two separate articles & sites.

Fascia is the most energy efficient material in the body. For example, when your bicep contracts and shortens, your tricep's fascia is stretched, and when your bicep stops contracting, you tricep does not need to contract to bring your arm back to the starting position because the fascia acts like a rubber band and simply springs you back.


What rocked the medical community's world was this: Fascia isn't just plastic wrap. Fascia can contract and feel and impact the way you move. It's our richest sense organ, it possess the ability to contract independently of the muscles it surrounds and it responds to stress without your conscious command. That's a big deal. It means that fascia is impacting your movements, for better or worse. It means that this stuff massage therapists and physical therapists and orthopedists have right at their fingertips is the missing variable, the one they've been looking for.

Thanks for posting the info. I’m really enjoying it.

 

[DRDRODD]

Drdrodd

What books did you read to study the fascia, tensegrity? Do you have Joey Myers book and videos?

Anatomy trains
No book for Tensegrity just internet research.
No I never really looked at Joey’s stuff besides a video once in a Blue moon.


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[Shawn]

Anatomy trains
No book for Tensegrity just internet research.
No I never really looked at Joey’s stuff besides a video once in a Blue moon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, yeah I need to read Anatomy trains.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

OK, so I have a quick moment to reply to these.....

see response in Red....

You mean to tell me that when you fully contract your bicep, squeezing it as hard as you can then release it, it doesn't spring back up a little?? Be for real........... the rebounding would have to pull the entire weight of the arm but The tighter you are the more rebound you will get..... Not trying to be rude but you are getting up there in age also. Your fascia is probably a little tired . Which tight people are typically the best movers as far as swing movements are concerned IMHO.

Sure, "a little", but just a very little off of my chest that I've pulled it tightly into if that's the question.

However nowhere near enough to ever come close to actually extending my arm as mentioned...and certainly not enough to make me think that's adding any real additional forces or anything to the swing, which is still what is the overall underlying purpose of the discussion is all about I hope.

No offense taken wrt to the old, "little tired" fascia....that definitely comes with the territory, and I'm not able to "stretch" as far as I used to, and I'll be more than happy to admit (to myself) that it's my fascia that's the villain in that, and not the muscle tissue that I've been pretty fortunate to be able maintain as it's pretty much been in my younger years.

Now I hope it's not rude if I call you a "little whippersnapper", and remind you that you shouldn't talk back to your elders...didn't your folks teach you anything? LOL!!! (Just kidding my friend, I'm really enjoying the discussion!)

Have you ever seen someone lay down on a bench and attempt to do a bench press that they knew they couldn't press back up. Lets go through the actions taken. The presser lifts the barbell off of the the rack (usually needs help to do so) holding it in place. Their presser muscles are contracted.... Then there is usually a very slow and controlled movement down to the chest. Now it's time to press the weight off of the chest and nothing happens. Explain to me why you believe that is? There is a reason why our bodies are stronger while do "negative" lifts and it has to do with leverage.

OK, but you have to promise not to get mad at me....

You just described "eccentric contraction" to a tee...and that has nothing to do with leverage, but muscle physiology as to why we "are stronger", and able to move, manage, maintain, and control heavier weights during eccentric over concentric contractions.

I linked to the "Muscle Physiology" page from the UCSD Muscle Physiology Laboratory however many posts ago if you'd like to read that for yourself.

I see it was published in 2013.... This stuff is still VERY new to the medical world pretty much everything that I have posted has been published in the last 3 years. The advancements in the medical field seems to change very rapidly but you would know better than me since you worked in it for 30 years.

Well I retired in 2009, so that's a "new" publication to me. Lol...

But someone just PM'd me the link for the "Old School vs. New School" book that he believes much of what you're discussing is coming from. So I'll definitely check that out wrt what it says about the "Myofacial System", and how the author believes it relates to the swing.

But now a little joke wrt "Old School vs. New School": Years ago, one of my clinical instructors joked that, "I've been doing this for so long, that when I was in school the heart only had two chambers"....we busted up...but then stopped to think for a minute to see if he was kidding or not.

Moral of the story: the body and physiology of it is pretty much unchanged from when our fins evolved into arms and legs (if one believes that version over the other)...and it's just that most "new" physiological discoveries are more "religious" based more so than they really are "scientific" based I'm finding out.

But I'll check out what Eugene Bleecker has recently discovered wrt the subject matter. Anyone happen to know his medical background and/or training...other than what's it says on his Twitter page (nothing about any that I can find at least...but unfortunately I don't have the time to even do a deep dive or there, much less searching online for him)?



Thanks for the discussion...but gotta run again...hopefully back later,
MB -

 

[Rolling Hard]

The swing is more like Nascar short track series. There is a straightway and a turn. Do you go all engine into the turn and hope the steering gets the job done or do you think the brakes are involved as well to help navigate the turn?

Thats not a good analogy.

 

[Buttermaker]

Thats not a good analogy.

Compared to the drag strip it is.

 

[DRDRODD]

OK, so I have a quick moment to reply to these.....




Sure, "a little", but just a very little off of my chest that I've pulled it tightly into if that's the question.
Cool.....

However nowhere near enough to ever come close to actually extending my arm as mentioned...and certainly not enough to make me think that's adding any real additional forces or anything to the swing, which is still what is the overall underlying purpose of the discussion is all about I hope.
Sure, their experiment really wasn't a good area choice IMO. Hell Rich's little wind up on his leg and spin around is a model of it.

No offense taken wrt to the old, "little tired" fascia....that definitely comes with the territory, and I'm not able to "stretch" as far as I used to, and I'll be more than happy to admit (to myself) that it's my fascia that's the villain in that, and not the muscle tissue that I've been pretty fortunate to be able maintain as it's pretty much been in my younger years.
You need to take care of it or it will definitely cause you some problems........

Now I hope it's not rude if I call you a "little whippersnapper", and remind you that you shouldn't talk back to your elders...didn't your folks teach you anything? LOL!!! (Just kidding my friend, I'm really enjoying the discussion!)



OK, but you have to promise not to get mad at me....

You just described "eccentric contraction" to a tee...and that has nothing to do with leverage, but muscle physiology as to why we "are stronger", and able to move, manage, maintain, and control heavier weights during eccentric over concentric contractions.
I know it is eccentric contraction....... During an eccentric contraction the object now has to overcome the force of the muscle and the fascia. During a concentric load the muscle must overcome the force of the fascia and the object. Eccentric contractions utilize muscles & fascia.

I linked to the "Muscle Physiology" page from the UCSD Muscle Physiology Laboratory however many posts ago if you'd like to read that for yourself.


Well I retired in 2009, so that's a "new" publication to me. Lol...

But someone just PM'd me the link for the "Old School vs. New School" book that he believes much of what you're discussing is coming from. So I'll definitely check that out wrt what it says about the "Myofacial System", and how the author believes it relates to the swing.

But now a little joke wrt "Old School vs. New School": Years ago, one of my clinical instructors joked that, "I've been doing this for so long, that when I was in school the heart only had two chambers"....we busted up...but then stopped to think for a minute to see if he was kidding or not.

Moral of the story: the body and physiology of it is pretty much unchanged from when our fins evolved into arms and legs (if one believes that version over the other)...and it's just that most "new" physiological discoveries are more "religious" based more so than they really are "scientific" based I'm finding out.

But I'll check out what Eugene Bleecker has recently discovered wrt the subject matter. Anyone happen to know his medical background and/or training...other than what's it says on his Twitter page (nothing about any that I can find at least...but unfortunately I don't have the time to even do a deep dive or there, much less searching online for him)?



Thanks for the discussion...but gotta run again...hopefully back later,
MB -

 

[DRDRODD]

Mud,

On a serious note. This little machine thingy could possibly help you..... The inventor lives in my area and does a lot of work with a guy that my DD trains with. I know quite a few people that it has helped tremendously, with all sorts of issues they were having.

ROTEXMotion Fitness

ROTEXMotion - rotational resistance devices that strongly activate and train rotator and stabilizer muscles. They are in use by individuals and organizations from PGA TOUR golfers to NFL football teams. We have full training programs for each individual training goal. We are a Titliest TPI...

www.rotexmotion.com

 

[DRDRODD]

But someone just PM'd me the link for the "Old School vs. New School" book that he believes much of what you're discussing is coming from. So I'll definitely check that out wrt what it says about the "Myofacial System", and how the author believes it relates to the swing.


But I'll check out what Eugene Bleecker has recently discovered wrt the subject matter. Anyone happen to know his medical background and/or training...other than what's it says on his Twitter page (nothing about any that I can find at least...but unfortunately I don't have the time to even do a deep dive or there, much less searching online for him)?

MB -

Mud,

Obviously I have bought in..... lol. So let me know if you actually read the book and you think it contains decent information or not because I haven’t read it. Attempting to leverage the fascial lines isn’t anything new. The guy that my DD trains with has been trying to figure it out for the last Four years or so. Right before the virus outbreak myself and DD went to his place to visit and to do some hitting. It was the first time in about 6 months that we were able to make the trip to see him. The first thing he tells me is “they figured it out”. I asked “who figured what out”. Then he told me what absolutes are needed to match High Level hitters. Since I was already familiar with the other stuff it was easy to see IMO.... So I have been working on it with my DD since. I asked who figured it out and he said he didn’t know but it is out there. It may have been Eugene that figured it out. I truly don’t know. I know 108 does talk about this stuff a lot though. I also know that you can talk to pretty much ANY technology type coach and they will be able to discuss the fascia stuff with you also. I’m just glad someone figured it out because it truly is good.


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[Mudders Brudder]

I kinda like the idea of putting the answers in the qoute box in red as you're doing...saves space. So...

Mud,

Obviously I have bought in..... lol. So let me know if you actually read the book and you think it contains decent information or not because I haven’t read it.
After doing some research into “Old School (Facts) vs New School (Fiction), I won’t be reading it, because just like “Anatomy Train” neither are based on scientific study, but rather associative conjecture. They both fall into the “religious” part of the earlier statement I made, “…and it's just that most "new" physiological discoveries are more "religious" based more so than they really are "scientific" based I'm finding out”, which is fine for some obviously, I’m just not one of them.

I made the mistake of abandoning science one time when it came to following one of these hitting furus, and it did irreparable damage to my youngest son’s swing, to whom I thoughtlessly used as my guinea pig, and that still deeply bothers me to this day.

There are others out there with the same stories wrt and about this furu’s pseudoscience theories, and I allowed the two evil beings “Faith” and “Hope” of thinking I/he was finding what others over 100 years of the game had somehow just missed that this “preacher” had one day in an epiphany he “discovered” in his basement.

So never again will I follow or buy into something that isn’t backed by science…or maybe better stated…at least never follow someone who uses pseudoscience to pretend they’ve discovered something, and has to change and rewrite true science backed A&P works in order to fit them into his theories, rather than basing his theories within the already established constraints of long standing science.

Attempting to leverage the fascial lines isn’t anything new. The guy that my DD trains with has been trying to figure it out for the last Four years or so.
A lot of laypeople attempt a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean they follow any rigorous scientific study in doing so. Yes, there are things you can leverage in the body, it’s just that “facial lines” are not one of those things…well, at least not technically or scientifically speaking…anecdotally speaking is another story.

Right before the virus outbreak myself and DD went to his place to visit and to do some hitting. It was the first time in about 6 months that we were able to make the trip to see him. The first thing he tells me is “they figured it out”. I asked “who figured what out”. Then he told me what absolutes are needed to match High Level hitters. Since I was already familiar with the other stuff it was easy to see IMO.... So I have been working on it with my DD since. I asked who figured it out and he said he didn’t know but it is out there. It may have been Eugene that figured it out. I truly don’t know. I know 108 does talk about this stuff a lot though. I also know that you can talk to pretty much ANY technology type coach and they will be able to discuss the fascia stuff with you also. I’m just glad someone figured it out because it truly is good.
I hope for your DD’s sake this guy’s marketing ploy of “what absolutes are needed to match High Level hitters” are better than all of the marketing ploys told to all of the other parents of aspiring hitters all over the world on a daily bases for umpteen years now. There are thousands of hitting furus all selling their new found secrets and discoveries, and as one dad to another when it comes to your new path to the hitting promise land please remember to….

Never doubt your DD. If she says it doesn’t feel right, or that she can’t do what you’re asking…believe her. Not the furu who’ll tell you she’s just not doing it right, that you’re not explaining it to her correctly, or worst of all…NEVER believe that a hitter will “get worse before they’ll get better, if they truly want to learn it”. That is the biggest piece of hitting marketing BS to ever make it into a cage, ball diamond, or even computer screen anywhere…yet many, including myself “bought in” to it hook, line, and sinker.

That goes for “Anatomy Train” that you cite as your anatomical training manual as well, and why I now completely understand why you believe what you do when it comes to the physiological properties of body structures.

But I can at least commend author Thomas Myers for being completely upfront about it in citing his training…”Tom has been a massage therapist and Structural Integration practitioner (rolfer) since the mid-70’s”, and from whom he’d gained his education (massage therapy certification)….”He studied directly with Ida Rolf, Moshe Feldenkrais and Buckminster Fuller”, none of whom are medically trained, and even Ida Rolf’s “Structural Integration or “Rolfing", [has been deemed] a pseudoscientific alternative medicine practice”. Which is fine, as long as someone doesn’t try cite it is real A&P, scientifically based reference material.

Tom is also kind enough, and up front enough to make sure that in his “Anatomy Trains” site and seminars he makes sure you're aware that…

…and that’s OK, as long as mentioned above, one knows that going in, and doesn’t try to cite Myers’ book as thinking it’s an actual A&P text book.

Now with all that said, I do with all sincerity, “Wish you and your DD the very best of luck with your/her hitting instruction”. I hope that whatever you learn from whomever you learn it from wrt the new “Mysfacial System” discovery...that you’re able to apply it to your instruction, and that it does make her a much better hitter…regardless of the fact that the underlying philosophy or premise it’s based on, is more fiction than fact. But, that matters little, as long as it makes your DD a better hitter than she is now, and that’s all anyone should be looking for as “proof” of anything.

One last thing if you’ll indulge me…

Please remember that time is your biggest enemy right now in your DD’s playing career, and if you’re not seeing marked improvement in her swing, and in her stats quickly…as Einstein would say, “Don’t keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results”….just because you “have bought it”...don't let your ego, pride, or maybe just “faith”, let you not abandon it....when your eyes, instincts, and intuitions are screaming something else at you the whole time. Been there, done that, and it ain’t a fun (or productive) time of life…for anyone.

Thanks for the discussion, it's been a great one, but now go out and make your DD great! From what I've learned from and feel about you...I have great faith that you'll do just that.

All the best always,
mud -