Bat Path

[Buttermaker]

Yep I've felt that many times.. do you believe once you started this action there is no option left for the hitter to extend the hips into the ball?

If leveraged correctly yes. Non thought though.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

The core pattern has the hands swinging "down to" from a leveraged hitting position.. Some see it as swinging against the hips. The under hood feel is the obliques contracting against the hips extending/rotating .. This is where trying to keep the barrel working within the s-plane allows this to happen naturally..

TDS, I "think" and "feel" as though we might be having a breakthrough here, but rather than state that as fact before knowing for sure, I'm going to the source (novel idea, I know...lol), and I'd like to get some clarification from you first. Cool?

So when you write that "The under hood feel is the obliques contracting against the hips extending/rotating", are stating that the "hips extending/rotating" is happening before "the obliques [start] contracting against" them? Or...

Is that stating that the "obliques [start] contracting" , and is what causes the "hips extending/rotating" as some are stating is the "feel" that they get?

Obviously I can certainly agree with one of those statements, and definitely not the other, or did I swing and miss completely with both of those questions, and you meant something completely different...and if so, could you please explain that to me? TIA

 

[TDS]

TDS, I "think" and "feel" as though we might be having a breakthrough here, but rather than state that as fact before knowing for sure, I'm going to the source (novel idea, I know...lol), and I'd like to get some clarification from you first. Cool?

So when you write that "The under hood feel is the obliques contracting against the hips extending/rotating", are stating that the "hips extending/rotating" is happening before "the obliques [start] contracting against" them? Or...

Is that stating that the "obliques [start] contracting" , and is what causes the "hips extending/rotating" as some are stating is the "feel" that they get?

Obviously I can certainly agree with one of those statements, and definitely not the other, or did I swing and miss completely with both of those questions, and you meant something completely different...and if so, could you please explain that to me? TIA

Mud, once leveraged fyb.. I feel the obliques contracting against the hips vs trying to rotate them.. IOW's not trying to rotate the hips but the hips will rotate as a result of the contraction from a leveraged position.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Yep I've felt that many times.. do you believe once you started this action there is no option left for the hitter to extend the hips into the ball?

Also sounds like a great exercise to understand that feeling

Wanna know for sure what moves what, and in what order, and not just "feel" what you "think" the earth is off past the horizon?

Stand in front of a mirror so you can watch you belly button (the area under the ribs and above the hip bone), and standing with your feet shoulder width apart (or slight wider, whichever's more comfortable), and your arm/hands just hanging at your sides (you're not going to need/use them)....

1.) Using just your legs, twist your pelvic girdle (some call that their "hips) front to back, side to side, front to rear - whatever words work to move the iliac crests of the PG towards the mirror and away from it....but don't move your belly button at all. Are you able to accomplish that, or does your belly button just move regardless of you trying to prevent it from doing so?

2.) Using just your belly button (oh OK, even body parts above it if you'd like)....twist your pelvic girdle (some call that their "hips) front to back, side to side, front to rear - whatever words work to move the iliac crests of the PG towards the mirror and away from it...but don't move your legs at all. Are you able to accomplish that, or does your belly button (and PG) not move if you don't move your legs?

That's it...EZ-PZ test you can do yourself, and with hitting students so they can actually "feel" anatomically what moves what in the body.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Mud, once leveraged fyb.. I feel the obliques contracting against the hips vs trying to rotate them.. IOW's not trying to rotate the hips but the hips will rotate as a result of the contraction from a leveraged position.

So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that "the contraction" of the obliques...will pull or "rotate" the hips out of their "leveraged"/coiled "back" position? Or IOWs, the obliques ("core" as some say) are pulling on the hips from the top down?

EDIT: Can you try the little "test" I just posted (one post above) yourself, and let me know what you felt or were able to do with it? TIA

 

[TDS]

So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that "the contraction" of the obliques...will pull or "rotate" the hips out of their "leveraged"/coiled "back" position? Or IOWs, the obliques ("core" as some say) are pulling on the hips from the top down?

Yep, the obliques (core) are pulling tugging the hands to swing down and the hips may or may not rotate in response (hips are reactive)..

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Yep, the obliques (core) are pulling tugging the hands to swing down and the hips may or may not rotate in response (hips are reactive)..

You mean like all of these swings where the hitters are simply using their "obliques (core)" to just drag their rear hip forward, and not get any use out of it and/or their legs....

...and thus have no "RHE"? Kind of like was stated here some time ago already...

That "rotation" or "jut" was the rear leg rotating or jutting the rear pelvis forward, but not if the hitter is using the front leg/hip to simply pull the rest of the pelvis forward on top of itself...which in that case would be "IR" of the lead leg/hip.

As opposed to hitters who actually get down into their legs, and use their rear hip extension to get things going to drive the ball....

...and thus the "RHE" is there, and quite notable.

And yes, the "hips" are reactive, just not to the obliques (core). In fact, it's you whose made them as a non-reactive "effect" of what you believe the obliques (core) are doing to them.......as to what would then be the "cause" of their movement in your scenario.

Oh well.... I guess I can just hope others are able to see, and "feel" the differences in descriptions that go with and/or match the various clips above (ones with RHE, and the ones above them without it).

Btw, all of the clips here are ones you've recently provided, and untouched by myself...if anyone was thinking I was hand/cherry picking clips to suit my needs or descriptions...I was not, don't need to, they speak for themselves. But I will add just one more here for those still pondering the differences, and ask one last question....

...how is Pena able to rotate his hips like that, if he's not even started to swing the bat or contract his obliques (core) to start "pulling" on them to get them to rotate? Hmm, what other body part(s) might be responsible for that moving/turning of the PG ("hips")....that's subsequently "stretching" the obliques (core) against the "resisting" hands/shoulders at that moment in the process/"sequence"?

 

[TDS]

Great drill to feel the obliques contracting is doing lead arms swings.. When doing the drill focus on keeping the lead arm back and let the contraction take you there..

Then add the top hand doing the same thing..

 

[fanboi22]

Wanna know for sure what moves what, and in what order, and not just "feel" what you "think" the earth is off past the horizon?

Stand in front of a mirror so you can watch you belly button (the area under the ribs and above the hip bone), and standing with your feet shoulder width apart (or slight wider, whichever's more comfortable), and your arm/hands just hanging at your sides (you're not going to need/use them)....

1.) Using just your legs, twist your pelvic girdle (some call that their "hips) front to back, side to side, front to rear - whatever words work to move the iliac crests of the PG towards the mirror and away from it....but don't move your belly button at all. Are you able to accomplish that, or does your belly button just move regardless of you trying to prevent it from doing so?

2.) Using just your belly button (oh OK, even body parts above it if you'd like)....twist your pelvic girdle (some call that their "hips) front to back, side to side, front to rear - whatever words work to move the iliac crests of the PG towards the mirror and away from it...but don't move your legs at all. Are you able to accomplish that, or does your belly button (and PG) not move if you don't move your legs?

That's it...EZ-PZ test you can do yourself, and with hitting students so they can actually "feel" anatomically what moves what in the body.

Do you have a video of this. I am not understanding directions. Highlighted above seem to contradict. twist vs towards and away. I tried and picture myself thrusting forward and back. is that what you mean?

i also am not sure what you mean by, 'just your belly button'. If you can show an example of this move it would be helpful.

Thanks for clarifying.


EDIT: or are you also standing sideways to the mirror? if so still same questions as above. thanks.

 

[fanboi22]

Human car tires (legs) have motors (and they happen to be the strongest motors in the human body)
Dead lift is the strongest move a human can do and uses legs and hip extension. Quad, glute and hamstring engines.

Is there a oblique lift or a situp max weight competition?

'Human car tires have motors'?

I am not arguing what muscles are the strongest in the body, i am asking what muscles are used. I am asking how to activate the quad , glute and hammy's in a swing, because i just don't feel it in the swing.

And when i physically try to use those QGH muscles, i lose range. my hip stops.

Now maybe this is more in line with me figuring out how to active the QGH along with the obliques, but they just seem to not be my main activation feel.

And for your question 'Is there a oblique lift or a situp max weight competition?', no idea. What does it matter. Please show me how the weightlift move is used in a twisty baseball swing. Weightlifter is leveraging straight down force to extend to pull up. Batter is spread base and a rear foot that is not leveraged at contact. Tell me how the weightlifter can clean and jerk with only one of two legs securely on the ground.