Just when you think you couldn't be more confused.....

[Shawn]

Shawn, my point is he has free hands to seek an optimal pivot point to whip the barrel from.

Now if his swing thought was ttb first would he still be able to square this pitch up ?

I think the swing and TTB would clash. Cancel each other out. This is knob to the ball and not getting on plane early.

 

[Work=wins]

I said before and after..if I remember correctly you only showed her "after". How about
when she had her horrible TTB incident that almost permanently "maimed" her and has apparently poisoned the water for you. Want to show
that "disfigured" moment and the after? That would work.

I could have sworn when you first showed up you said something about her being the only
person you ever worked with but now it seems you boast of many hitters....but whatever.

Edit: FYI I like your DD's swing and it seems to have been productive for her up to this point
but that isn't the point

I have had an 18u gold team for the last 21/2 years. I have said this. Everything is documented. I work with most of the girls on my team. Some I don’t. 2 actually. One has a good swing the other is kinetically incorrect. But is loyal to her HC.She can’t hit anything above her BB. I also work with girls that are in college now. And a few from neighboring teams. I really don’t want to work with others that are in the same division as DD. She is a pitcher. See my dilemma. So I don’t look for students. I wouldn’t anyway. I work with kids from my teams. I enjoy helping them earn their scholarship. That’s why I do it. Not for personal gain. I rarely even charge them.

My DDs TTB swing is on here as well. I was looking for help with weight shift and control. Go figure.

If you want me to post other girls. I won’t. I actually did post one but it was when I started working with her. Already changed her.


As for before video. I don’t even take footage. I will film a few swings during front toss towards the end of the lesson to see what inefficiencies still remain or don’t.

Hitting mechanics are not that complicated imo. But understanding cause and effect can be.

 

[rdbass]

 

[julray]

Barrel turning without forcing it, thinking about it... with a hands to the ball mentality. Interesting that TM pointed that out. Only thing I see wrong with this picture is one person trying to manufacture TTB, while the other lets it happen naturally. That's my hesitancy with forcing TTB, ='s forcing a result

 

[2br02b]

Barrel turning without forcing it, thinking about it... with a hands to the ball mentality. Interesting that TM pointed that out. Only thing I see wrong with this picture is one person trying to manufacture TTB, while the other lets it happen naturally. That's my hesitancy with forcing TTB, ='s forcing a result

Didn't you just doodle this (hand path/bat path) on the previous page?

 

[julray]

Didn't you just doodle this (hand path/bat path) on the previous page?

Yes.. TTB with no intention/forcing of TTB

 

[Cornbread]

If you watch all the turning the barrel before and afters I notice the player has more tension in legs. Head stays down, body rotates around a tilted axis. I’ve stated before that I don’t like hands drills. That’s just me. I’ve had success with hitters focusing on sequence (swinging from the ground up) and tempo. JMO but I think if you focus on teaching those two things with your players and DDs you will see TTB.

 

[FP26]

Thanks for the comparison on pitching and hitting, i agree.

Bolded above: i see behind and through. IN speaking with MudV9 as well, he talks of the same thing, which i agree with. So now the question is how to start that path. i don't like neck slot, and DBSF does not allow it to happen. But i dont think it is just the hands, as that path cannot happen without the lower body in the correct position and the torso making orange (picked that up from FFS) where the muscles contract and the gears start grinding.

I dont believe the hands just wait for the body to pull it, at least i dont think (question on that later) and i dont think that you can SNAP the wrists to bonk the catcher, as we have tried and that causes dumping the barrel. I think there is a combination of this, and to get the barrel moving with a pull down from the hands, forearms, slotting etc whatever, i think gets the barrel moving. LIke the Boardmember swing trainger video, the bat would just slap you in the neck if you didn't have some type of pivot point but to what degree.

Back to my question i eluded to.

i do use a Blast Motion on the bats, and something i saw on a Zepp video was the hands an the barrel speed converging.

With the idea of bat lag and barrel whip to contact, does everyone agree that the hands and the barrel, sometime after swing initiation, reach the same speed, or very close? Or do you think that the tight hand pivot point helps generate terminal velocity and the barrel of the bat goes always faster around that pivot point to contact with only a last bit of whip into contact, or no whip at all?

First off, Mud has been a great resource for me over the years. I have learned a great deal from him and have incorporated a number of his thoughts in my DD's swing. In regards to your questions...

hand speed vs barrel speed --- barrel speed will be faster than hand speed because of the kinetic chain.
pivot, etc. --- this gets confusing... But I promote early bat speed, meaning that the acceleration is going to start while the barrel is still moving rearward. I do not want to wait until the barrel turns the corner and then try to accelerate it. The sooner I can begin the acceleration, the faster the overall speed is going to be. And the faster your barrel speed, the more time you have available to wait prior to commitment. Speed is good, as long as it is controlled.

 

[FP26]

So, hands or no hands? what do you tell students wrt hands? Should i tell my DD to focus on keeping hands inside the ball? or tell her to keep her forearms tight to her shoulder for a tight pivot point? Should i tell her to swing but make sure your hands go down the line? Should i tell her to never think of her hands and just try to get front elbow on plane to hit the ball and hands and barrel will follow?

I guess if you could describe to me what you may tell a student about hands who doesn't have a good path that may help me understand. I am not disagreeing, but whenever i try to critically think about it i can't decipher the comments. To me that just means i have to guess at what they mean, and i am obviously failing at that.

thanks in advance.

Whenever you use a cue, it is very important to provide context. For example, while I think "hands inside the ball" can be used in positive ways, I seriously doubt anyone would suggest "hands outside the ball"....

 

[FP26]

pattar digging for hidden agendas again... sigh.

It's confusing, just like many posters have already claimed. I am looking further my understanding.. I'm not ready to accept an answer which blows off professional hitters and their intent.... because they don't know the difference. If this was Trouts intent since he was a kid, then there's something worth exploring here, hence why started the thread. Not that I should ever have to explain why, people start threads looking for answers, friendly dialogue, to make a statement etc.. why do I need to explain this to you?

It takes some time, but there are a lot of really good threads. And even more good threads on BBD. In fact, if you go to BBD and find the "New Member Intro Thread" there is a ton of great material. Yes, you need to week your way through the same old garbage. But when you start ignoring all the white noise, there is a lot of great content available. If you are not interested in wading through all the garbage (and I can certainly understand that), then simply pick someone who seems to makes sense to you (such as Matt Antonelli, Justin Stone, Bobby Tewksbary, or someone else) and dive in. At that point completely ignore all the hitting forums and the mixed messages you receive there. Find one message and stick with it. There are different ways of doing this and the choice is yours.