Drive Mechanics

[FP26]

Watch the kid sprint 25 meters. If they don't know how to sprint, get them to a running coach or attempt to teach them yourself. That's first.

Second, when they do know how to sprint, record them, and look at the angle of their feet when they are sprinting. Every kid is different. What you want is to replicate that angle for their drive foot, more or less.

Third, the point of controlling the drive/pivot foot angle is two-fold. You want to maximize drive, obviously, but you also want to ensure that the hips do not rotate open early. To maximize drive the pitcher has to maximize the extension of their drive leg using the primary drivers, and that means keeping the hips as square towards the catcher as possible until maximum extension is achieved. At this point the shoulders have already begun to rotate open, thus the hips and shoulders are at different angles which underlies the importance of core strength, because this isn't going to happen properly without it. This also creates stretch across the torso that will help to slingshot the hip open once full leg extension is achieved. The hips and shoulders then realign during this weightless period before again disassociating just before stride foot plant.

Whatever the pivot foot has to do to make that happen for each individual pitcher is what is important. For most kids, that is going to be using the angle that they use best when they're sprinting.

-W

First of all, I am not a PC. I am a TB coach that tries to help his players as much as possible. Therefore I want to learn and make sure I am not stating something incorrectly. As I have read on another site, a coach should "do no harm".

SS - I am in agreement with your point about sprinting. But what I do is ask the pitcher to do a standing long jump with her feet approximately shoulder width apart. I actually have her do this several times. While she is doing that, I notice the alignment of her feet. Whatever position seems to be most comfortable to the individual pitcher, is the angle I want them to emulate with the right foot when pushing off (RH pitcher). Same as your sprinter note. And, with using 45 degrees as the "starting point", I will modify the landing position by the angle difference as well. For example, if her feet are pointed outwards slightly during the standing long jump, I look for a landing slightly less than 45 degrees.

What I have considered is 45 degrees as the ideal landing and 0 as the ideal push off (I am now rethinking that...), taking into consideration that every pitcher is different and modifying the angles from there. So I do not feel they are absolutes but vary by individual.

If I am looking at this incorrectly, I would like to know. Like I said, I want to help these players, not hold them back or hinder their progress.

What has brought me to look at these things is trying to help one pitcher in particular. While playing catch with her a few months ago, I noticed that she was standing on her right foot and shaking her left foot. I asked if she was ok. Of course her response was "yes, I'm fine". I talked to her mom later that evening and learned that she was having pain in her left ankle (landing foot). The next time we played catch, I watched this closely. What I found is that she was landing at nearly a 90 degree angle. It looked very awkward and I was concerned that she was placing extra stress on the ankle because of that angle. I started working on modifying that angle, and it has seemed to help. Again, if my theory on this is incorrect, please let me know. Thanks for the great posts!!

 

[javasource]

Did you just contradict yourself? I'm no expert here and I don't pretend to be one. But it seems like you just said 2 different angles here. No disrespect meant, just want a better understanding.

No. The second angle was a reference to the open position that the torso achieves as a result of stride and drive foot orientation, coupled with stride angle. The first reference was the orientation of just the drive foot AT push off from the plate.

Not really sure what you mean with the second statement... but if I had to guess... you're referring to the orientation of the drive foot as it comes forward... off the rubber? If this is what you mean... then it will respond at that point to the angle of the stride foot... as the momentum forward and the orientation of the stride leg... will influence the drive leg.

What happens mid-flight is not the focus (in the latest post)... with the drive foot, that is. We are only looking at the angle of the drive foot as it pushes off the plate... what happens later is contingent on a few other variables... as mentioned above. One can always externally rotate their thigh when weightless... and I suspect that might be the case in your comment.

Anyway... thanks for the feedback and questions... feel free to clarify if I haven't answered your questions/comments.

 

[javasource]

Watch the kid sprint 25 meters. If they don't know how to sprint, get them to a running coach or attempt to teach them yourself. That's first.

Second, when they do know how to sprint, record them, and look at the angle of their feet when they are sprinting. Every kid is different. What you want is to replicate that angle for their drive foot, more or less.

Third, the point of controlling the drive/pivot foot angle is two-fold. You want to maximize drive, obviously, but you also want to ensure that the hips do not rotate open early. To maximize drive the pitcher has to maximize the extension of their drive leg using the primary drivers, and that means keeping the hips as square towards the catcher as possible until maximum extension is achieved. At this point the shoulders have already begun to rotate open, thus the hips and shoulders are at different angles which underlies the importance of core strength, because this isn't going to happen properly without it. This also creates stretch across the torso that will help to slingshot the hip open once full leg extension is achieved. The hips and shoulders then realign during this weightless period before again disassociating just before stride foot plant.

Whatever the pivot foot has to do to make that happen for each individual pitcher is what is important. For most kids, that is going to be using the angle that they use best when they're sprinting.

-W

Exactly. Love this post, SS. Really good points.

 

[javasource]

If anyone has ever had to coach a kid who is bow legged or pigeon toed, it can be a real challenge in getting the right mechanics to happen in ways that do not put undue stress on their joints (pigeon toed especially). As these kids mature and go through puberty, the natural angle of their foot changes, and it is important to recognize these changes and to correct mechanics as they occur. A pigeon toed kid is going to have undue stress on their ACL if they try to land with a 45 degree angle of their foot, but might be fine at 60 degrees, for instance. Osterman and Abbot are both slightly pigeon toed, if you observe them in non-athletic settings.

Speaking of great posts... SS - you rock. This is the subject of the next post, "Differences".

 

[javasource]

If I am looking at this incorrectly, I would like to know. Like I said, I want to help these players, not hold them back or hinder their progress.

I think you're doing fine. You might get a better feel for her true ankle orientation based on SS's recommendation.

... she was having pain in her left ankle (landing foot).

This can be from a multitude of different things... Not putting the arch on stretch during stride... Plantar fasciitis is a possibility... and more commonly... over-pronation of the foot. The 90-degree plant would exacerbate these conditions... as would more of a heel striking pattern...

If she's doing better... that's a good sign. Thanks for sharing, Fastpitch26!

 

[CoachScott]

No. The second angle was a reference to the open position that the torso achieves as a result of stride and drive foot orientation, coupled with stride angle. The first reference was the orientation of just the drive foot AT push off from the plate.

Thank you for clarification. I assumed they we both at push off.

Not really sure what you mean with the second statement... but if I had to guess... you're referring to the orientation of the drive foot as it comes forward... off the rubber? If this is what you mean... then it will respond at that point to the angle of the stride foot... as the momentum forward and the orientation of the stride leg... will influence the drive leg.

Yes, that was what I was referring too.

Again thanks for the clarification. I didn't want to rely on assumptions.

 

[3DD'sDAD]

Need to reply to this the odd time to keep it near the top. Time to make this a 'sticky'.

 

[txnick]

JV,

KK loves this post !

Stride & Drive Orientation – Part 2

Hopefully, you’ve arrived at this post with an open mind... and all you care about is putting your DD or student in positions that allow her to maximize her potential; safely and efficiently. If so, let us take a moment to put YOU in a couple of positions…

The following assumes you are right-handed. If not, ‘flip’ the following instructions…

Exercise 1 – Stride Orientation

1. Stand, feet side-by-side (comfortably spaced), with the right side of your body 6-12 inches from a wall… facing forward. This is also a handy thing to perform in front of a full-length mirror.
2. While keeping your right foot pointed straight ahead, take a decent sized step forward with your left foot; at a 45-degree (inward) orientation/angle on plant.
3. If it helps you keep your right foot pointing forward, feel free to raise the heel up so you’re on the ‘ball of your right foot’.
4. Once you’ve landed… hold your position and look at your hips. You should see that, naturally, your hips responded to the angle of your stride foot. They won’t be at exactly the same angle as your foot… as we are all designed a little different. The wall will serve as a reference to this angle…
5. To drive the point home, after checking out your hip orientation, square them up (forward) while in this position. In doing so, you’ll feel a stretch in your right hamstring and glutes… And you’ll also have a reference as to how much your hips opened… which was about 45-degrees.

Exercise 2 – Drive Orientation

1. Repeat Step 1 from above.
2. While keeping your left foot pointed straight ahead, rotate your right (drive) foot outward 45 degrees. Take a decent sized step forward with your left foot; keeping the left foot pointed straight ahead on plant.
3. If it helps you take a decent step forward, feel free to raise the heel up so you’re on the ‘ball of your right foot’… but be sure to keep the right at a 45-degree angle and left foot at no angle – or straight ahead.
4. Once you’ve landed… hold your position and look at your hips. You should see that, naturally, your hips responded to the angle of your drive foot… Check angle with the wall to your right.
5. Square up the hips… once again… feeling this ‘stretch’. Depending on your flexibility – squaring up will be a resisted feeling… as it’s not natural… hence the reason our hips open.

Exercise 3 – Stride & Drive Orientation

By now… some of you may have just had an epiphany… but do the exercise anyway.

1. Repeat Step 1 from above.
2. With feet side by side, rotate your right foot outward 45-degrees. Take a decent sized step forward with your left foot AND land at a 45-degree angle with the left foot, too. Both feet should be angled (to the right) 45-degrees.
3. Again, feel free to raise up on the ball of the right foot, if it helps you take a larger step.
4. Now… look at your hips… Holy smokes… that’s not a 45-degree hip angle!!!
5. Reference the wall, you should be pretty close to ‘fully’ open… and definitely a lot further than you were in Exercise 2 or 3. Try them all again, and compare if you don’t believe me.

Hopefully, that epiphany has set in… If not… you’re either one-legged, a mutant, or just generally disagreeable… (not that any of those things are bad attributes... I'm keeping it positive this New Year!)

Drive foot turn-out ADDS to the stride angle… and if you really want to put it to the test… try Exercise 2 with the right foot rotated outward 90-degrees with no stride foot angle. Now… let us have a peak at Ueno and Monica… one more time… but through a ‘different pair of lenses’…

This introduces a subject that has led to a couple heated debates on DFP… drive foot turn-out. Drive foot turn-out is completely natural and NOT a negative thing. Every decent sprinter in the world does it… many pitchers do it, and if your DD doesn’t do it… your limiting the amount she can engage the largest muscles in her leg… and they’d like to help her drive forcefully off the plate…so let them! If you still don’t believe it… well… you might be getting in your own way... and hers.

All this said… I often limit drive foot turn-out. Turning the drive foot out much more than 45-degrees (I prefer only what is necessary) is counter-productive… similar to stretching a muscle too far… you’ll negate the directional force if you take it too far… and put the quads at a disadvantage.

So… if I’ve said/say that your DD is opening too much… and that it appears her stride orientation is fine… you need to realize that the additive effect of her drive turn-out and stride orientation… are creating a hip/torso angle that allows her to open beyond 90-degrees.

Couple this with the last main post… Stride Angle… and you’ll see how easy it is… and unbelievably prevalent… that younger/inexperienced pitchers open too much. You might have just checked the stride foot… now you know better… Check the stride angle (across the body adds to the angle, to the left for RHP subtracts)… check the stride foot orientation, and then check the drive foot orientation (as it PUSHES off the rubber).

Lastly, should your goal be 90? IMO, no. I like 70ish… because I know the effect that the upper torso and arm momentum have on adding to the torso angle. Setting 90 with the feet… results in 90+ overhead…

Pitching is never as simple as one thing… it’s a bunch… added up… and with every pitcher - they are never the same.

End Part 2

Next up... "Differences"... I think...

 

[Doug Romrell]

Yes! Hopefully Java will continue. I'm hungry..... Hungry like a wolf.

 

[CoachScott]

Oh No! Another meaning for DD . . . . . . . Duran Duran.