PUSH the BAT or PULL the BAT

[HYP]

Nice swing. Great example of front-side power mechanics combined with the aid of top and bottom hand wrist torque.

Nope, great example of a pulling rear hip powered by the top hand.

 

[RayR]

Another experiment for you....

Set up a tee pretty deep in your stance....try to swing to hit and try to keep your upper arm tight to your body (not your elbow - just your upper arm) swing both ways....one way using the bottom hand like a hammer and then using the bottom hand like you are trying to back hand into contact....which way allows more barrel movement into the ball without leaning away from the ball....or flipping the elbow way up?

Now - if you allow the front elbow to elevate and wing up - then yes you can hit the ball using the bottom hand like a hammer....but is this what great hitters do? To do this your elbow down the barrel tip would not be in a straight line....like the hitter below...

 

[HYP]

Like I said, many MLB players are naturals but do not necessarily know how to explain what they do....lol

But you can explain what they can do?

 

[HYP]

You are wrong! Here is why you are wrong. How many pros have said they use their bottom hand as the power hand? None that I have heard. Also, the only way for the lead arm to be the power arm would mean that the lead arm has to be in a state of pulling the whole way. The only way it could provide enough energy would be to maintain a CHP with no deviation. Once the lead hand deviates from its original CHP then there will be a degradation of bat speed. So, how does it make adjustments for inside pitches without losing bat speed? How does it make adjustments for outside pitch and have enough of a CHP to get the barrel up to speed? Answers are, IT CAN'T.

The bottom hand guides the barrel. It either pulls in to shorten the bat or it lets out to lengthen the bat, The top hand is supplying the power by turning and driving through. Just like Mr. Bonds said and Mr. Ripken Jr.

Can you please explain and show how and where you see the bottom hand supplying the energy for the bat in these clips?

Bump.... Can someone please explain how the bottom hand/arm is supplying the power for the outside pitch?

 

[RayR]

Bump.... Can someone please explain how the bottom hand/arm is supplying the power for the outside pitch?

only through decelerating properly does the bh supply power by transferring energy .

 

[Lenski]

Another experiment for you....

Set up a tee pretty deep in your stance....try to swing to hit and try to keep your upper arm tight to your body (not your elbow - just your upper arm) swing both ways....one way using the bottom hand like a hammer and then using the bottom hand like you are trying to back hand into contact....which way allows more barrel movement into the ball without leaning away from the ball....or flipping the elbow way up?

Now - if you allow the front elbow to elevate and wing up - then yes you can hit the ball using the bottom hand like a hammer....but is this what great hitters do? To do this your elbow down the barrel tip would not be in a straight line....like the hitter below...

Would you say these elite hitter's elbows are elevated? This is what I mean by elevated...away from the rib cage. I just want to make sure we understand each other.



[video]http://www.myspace.com/video/johnny-lloyd/josh-hamilton-slow-motion-swing/38969885[/video]

 

[Lenski]

But you can explain what they can do?

Have you ever noticed that the best coaches aren't necessarily the greatest players to play the game? I have studied hitting theory a very long time and the science behind it. One thing I do know is that there is indeed more than one way to skin a cat. I also know that a very few have it and most of us do not. When all the craze was squishing the bug I was not in the same boat. When all the craze was swinging down on the ball to increase the reverse spin on the ball I was not on the same boat. I also know that practice makes permanent and perfect practice makes perfect. That's why I do not understand the drills some have posted on here.

When I played slow pitch softball (after baseball and before the hi-tech bats) and the bases were still at 60ft, I knew my best way to get on base was to finesse the ball with my top hand. I could flick it anywhere and if by some strange chance the outfield pulled in I would pull hard from the front side and hit it over their head. Sometimes I got lucky and would hit it out.

 

[RayR]

yes and no....of course the elbow is elevated in a sense that it is not down on the body or even or in worst case below the hands...it should always end up above the hands at contact....

No - the elbow is not a teach....if the hands work right the elbow will do what it is supposed to do....have a lot of experience around here with lead elbow pull type teaching....it is not what I recommend....the elbow wings up and out leaving the hitter trying to salvage some swings as they are pulling off...

Like I have been saying - if the bottom hand is rolling correctly - the barrel can be turned/thrown into contact with much more velocity because the bottom hand can decelerate correctly allowing the top hand to throw past and provide the pop in the swing....I might use the bottom hand as emphasis, but obviously the front forearm is rolling as well and this allows the front arm to lengthen (extension) or pull in as need be....if the bottom hand is hammering in plane and the forearm is not allowed to roll (trying to give you another visual) the elbow hinge will bottom out sooner and force the hitter to pull off with either the elbow, shoulder or both....the wrist can hammer only so far if the forearm isnt allowed to supinate (roll)...

The reason this needs to be taught is because too many hitters are taught to either lead pull with the elbow, or are taught flat hands at contact (see pizza toss drill) or are taught to hammer with the bottom hand....

 

[RayR]

Nice swing. Great example of front-side power mechanics combined with the aid of top and bottom hand wrist torque.

At the slow down of this clip....is the bottom hand and forearm rolling (backhanding) to pull the hands in? It sure looks like it. The top hand want to fly out in a wider arc since it is closer to the barrel. Then wouldn't the bottom hand be in charge of the direction of the swing? Now, if you are saying that the bottom hand is supplying more energy to the swing because as it rolls it is decelerating as it pulls the hands in thus creating a sharper, faster barrel turn - I can agree with that....

 

[redhotcoach]

At the slow down of this clip....is the bottom hand and forearm rolling (backhanding) to pull the hands in? It sure looks like it. The top hand want to fly out in a wider arc since it is closer to the barrel. Then wouldn't the bottom hand be in charge of the direction of the swing? Now, if you are saying that the bottom hand is supplying more energy to the swing because as it rolls it is decelerating as it pulls the hands in thus creating a sharper, faster barrel turn - I can agree with that....

MTS, no offense, but I don't understand the purpose of debating with liars.

Len:

Actually, the top hand is the guide. It determines the ultimate path of the bat using the bottom hand as a pivot point as the front arm supplies power in the form of a pull.

GM

Interested in how this translates for an outside pitch that gets deep and hit to opposite field.

Len

The majority of the power is still coming from the front side.

Later Len saving face

We (Len and SL) also know opposite field shots are top hand driven

Especially ones that I have treated kindly that start threads to try to call me out.

I hear you dont pull the bat from some members of this site??? If your not pushing it, and not pulling it then that means you just hold on and rotating

I have no profit in anything on here....It cost ME nothing to say I am wrong...in fact it benefits me by learning more.
It's all for the kids, not for the bank account.