PUSH the BAT or PULL the BAT

[straightleg]

I think most of us agree that you dont push the bat around.

The one place I think you do push the bat is when you release your wrists. The leverage of the wrist and your index finger of the top hand push along with the whip.

I hear you dont pull the bat from some members of this site??? If your not pushing it, and not pulling it then that means you just hold on and rotating

I think swinging a bat is a combination of pushing and pulling.

Lets start the swing from stride out, toe touch.
Hip/Big toe and pad of back foot, push to start the swing (Elvis Move)
The back hip grabs the skin from the waist up and pulls the upper body around
The upper body grabs the shoulders and arms and they start to get pulled around.
The arms are locked to maintain the box until it starts to turn the corner, then the whip starts with the arms,hands, and wrists to impact. That whip is a pull
The wrists and index finger of the top hand push the bat into impact along with the whip.

And of course you do this off a firm planted straight front leg.
Some even roll the front foot over in the swing.
All this gives you extension if done in the right order.


That is how I see it, its my story and I am sticking to it.




Straightleg

 

[RayR]

In the context of a swing....your hands are going to go forward....so are you pulling the handle, pushing the handle or turning the handle? Since I am also an advocate of bottom hand roll aka backhanding....I vote turning the handle as the primary motor to get the barrel around...

 

[redhotcoach]

Since you are talking to me...and referring to my reply to you friends comment:

If you can convince her to pull the bat through the zone with the lead arm

I definitely do not pull the bat through the zone with my lead arm.

I whip or throw the bat...and will only think or verbalize it that way. If you are teaching a girl to get the ball from 3rd to 1st do you tell her to pull the ball, or push the ball, or throw the ball?

I don't have any issue with your description above...thanks. Put together, it sounds like whipping or throwing the barrel. It was the other guy's continual advice to fix bat drag by pull...and pulling with the lead arm through the zone. You will never hear a power hitter say "I really pulled through the ball with my bottom hand." No they talk about the top hand power.

This guy can be heard talking about his top hand a lot.

He is not pulling the barrel through the zone with his lead arm.

 

[straightleg]

The whip is a pull.
I guess you would have to define pull between different hitting instructors?


Sometimes when I give a lesson and the are hitting it to high in the zone, I tell them to think, pull the bat with the three bottom fingers of the lead hand.
They then hit a line drive

So the swing thought was a pull thought.




SL

 

[RayR]

SL, in the case of your hitters - they were most likely dropping their hands pulling/dragging the bat around with their shoulders....you gave them a better cue to use their hands more actively and it worked....but are they really just pulling or are their hands turning and going forward at the same time....

I say this because when I think of pulling I picture the elbow driving forward pulling the hands along....

 

[Lenski]

Since you are talking to me...and referring to my reply to you friends comment:



I definitely do not pull the bat through the zone with my lead arm.

I whip or throw the bat...and will only think or verbalize it that way. If you are teaching a girl to get the ball from 3rd to 1st do you tell her to pull the ball, or push the ball, or throw the ball?

I don't have any issue with your description above...thanks. Put together, it sounds like whipping or throwing the barrel. It was the other guy's continual advice to fix bat drag by pull...and pulling with the lead arm through the zone. You will never hear a power hitter say "I really pulled through the ball with my bottom hand." No they talk about the top hand power.

This guy can be heard talking about his top hand a lot.

He is not pulling the barrel through the zone with his lead arm.

Okay, fine. You throw the bat. You throw a ball also. So, when you throw, is your initial forward move a pull or push? Let's see how good your Physics is. What about throwing a frisbee?

Len

 

[redhotcoach]

Okay, fine. You throw the bat. You throw a ball also. So, when you throw, is your initial forward move a pull or push? Let's see how good your Physics is.

Len

If you mean my hands... initial move...I turn the barrel...top hand torque...a sort of pull on the top hand turning the barrel...as it flows into FORWARD movement and flows through the whip around the corner, there is a pull of my lead arm, but a much higher amout of force is coming from my top hand.

If you want to fix bat drag, or pull, by conveincing to pull more, go ahead.

I'm out.

 

[RayR]

Curious on why this matters? Especially in a practical hitting forum? Who cares if you push or pull to throw a frisbee....I am more interested in the player understanding how the wrist would work and how the wrist action would be similar to the bottom hand in a swing....

Okay, fine. You throw the bat. You throw a ball also. So, when you throw, is your initial forward move a pull or push? Let's see how good your Physics is. What about throwing a frisbee?

Len

 

[redhotcoach]

Okay, fine. You throw the bat. You throw a ball also. So, when you throw, is your initial forward move a pull or push? Let's see how good your Physics is. What about throwing a frisbee?

Len

Opp hey...didn't see you edited after I posted...bad form.

Frisbee....do you want a lot of power behind a frisbee throw? If you have thrown a frisbee, you would know. Why don't discus throwers pull lead arm style like a frisbee?

As long as we are having fun...have someone pitch to you, 1st do lead arm one handed hits. Now do top hand one handed hits. Which had more power. I can hit both well...and choose to use two hands, but I have a lot of power and control with my top hand. If I have a barrel or bat path issue, I am going to look at my top hand action first.

 

[straightleg]

SL, in the case of your hitters - they were most likely dropping their hands pulling/dragging the bat around with their shoulders....you gave them a better cue to use their hands more actively and it worked....but are they really just pulling or are their hands turning and going forward at the same time....

I say this because when I think of pulling I picture the elbow driving forward pulling the hands along....

I just know it works when they pull with the bottom three fingers. Never really thought hard on what the back hand was doing because that swing thought worked.
I guess the top hand would naturally pull down some?

Thats what I feel, but dont give that swing thought to anyone




SL