Calling Pitches Philosophy

[Rocketech1]

One important point that you have failed to address is that coaches can and do track every pitch and every batter and know exactly what they did during their last at bat. This information is very valuable to pitch calling that most catchers cannot pick up on. Probably the best approach would be a hybrid approach where the catcher calls the game but coaches can relay information as needed to the catchers when appropriate and also have the pitcher have the discretion to call off pitches as she feels necessary. In summary, a collaboration of the pitcher, catcher, and coaches. FYI we started tracking every pitch and at bat result as early as 10u all stars.

 

[Greenmonsters]

One important point that you have failed to address is that coaches can and do track every pitch and every batter and know exactly what they did during their last at bat. This information is very valuable to pitch calling that most catchers cannot pick up on. Probably the best approach would be a hybrid approach where the catcher calls the game but coaches can relay information as needed to the catchers when appropriate and also have the pitcher have the discretion to call off pitches as she feels necessary. In summary, a collaboration of the pitcher, catcher, and coaches. FYI we started tracking every pitch and at bat result as early as 10u all stars.

Yes, collaboration between the coaches, pitchers and catchers is absolutely essential. A scouting report, which incorporates pitch tracking, is important to identifying tendencies to help develop a game plan and approach for each hitter. Between inning collaboration is important to confirm whether the plan is working/needs modification/review the umpire's zone/review opponents approach/discuss pitcher's effectiveness/review batters up next inning etc.. But I don't think its necessary on a pitch to pitch basis - real-time updating of that scouting report doesn't help tell you what pitch to throw in a certain situation. The other thing about scouting reports is that just because a hitter may be considered a good curveball hitter doesn't mean that you should never throw them a curve ball, particularly if your pitcher's best pitch is a curveball! One problem with pitch tracking from the dugout is the limited visual perspective. In the case of a hitter who HR'd on an inside screwball last at bat, pitch tracking won't tell you that it didn't break like it should have and was on the inside corner, rather than 6 inches more inside. So an inside screwball may be the right call on that batter during the next at bat (if the pitcher is confident in throwing it after the prior result!).

It's a lot of work and responsibility for a catcher and they will need their coaches help/training to learn to do it well. And a pitcher should never be forced to throw any pitch in a situation where she isn't confident with the call.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

One important point that you have failed to address is that coaches can and do track every pitch and every batter and know exactly what they did during their last at bat. This information is very valuable to pitch calling that most catchers cannot pick up on. Probably the best approach would be a hybrid approach where the catcher calls the game but coaches can relay information as needed to the catchers when appropriate and also have the pitcher have the discretion to call off pitches as she feels necessary. In summary, a collaboration of the pitcher, catcher, and coaches. FYI we started tracking every pitch and at bat result as early as 10u all stars.

This is dang close.

GM, I'm sure your college experience was very similar. We had spreadsheets ( written or typed in those days ), that the coaches, pitchers, catchers, all studied........evaluated........discussed in detail..........on every batter we were going to face playing team_______. Each had an imput/opinion on the tatical approach, but even that was only as good as the knowledge/experience of those involved.

^^^^^^That part is very difficult, when you play TB, unless you're not traveling far and only playing the same teams over and over. In college or pro ball, we had/have access to hours of game footage of _____ batter before we even take the field. TB not so much. Lots of time in TB it's more "shooting from the hip" ( general philosophy ) than in college/pro where we are aiming through the "scope" ( detailed philosophy ) because we can/have so much information on our opponent days/weeks prior to the actual event.

Let's remove "idiots" from the equation for an example:
This is a basic concept we used for FP.
1) I believe a coach with either pitching/catching experience should be the first link in the chain, but also open minded to his/her players in development.
a) We had an opinion signal ( what the coach thought ) which left the final call to the catcher.
b) We had an absolute signal, which meant the catcher nor the pitcher could change.

2) The catcher should be second in the chain, they have the best view of the other two links.
a) They see tendencies/weaknesses that I can't 60' away.
b) They can see mechanical flaws in my pitching. ( more upper level TB, college, pro )
c) They can see just how much the balls are breaking, or if my "heat" is not as "hot" that day.

3) Ultimately the pitcher is the third, and should reserve the right to shake off calls by the previous links. ( within reason, let's not let the pitcher look like he's watching a tennis match shaking his head all over the place )
a) Sometimes pitchers can "feel" what's working physically for them that day, and what's not.
b) Sometimes it's a "gut".
c) Sometimes the other two links are real close to what he believes is right, but the pitcher feels a change needs to be adapted. ( a change in location, or pitch type, or pitch speed )

Gotta run, firing up the grill for some MAN SIZE burgers!!

 

[Lenski]

One important point that you have failed to address is that coaches can and do track every pitch and every batter and exactly what they did during their last at bat. This information is very valuable to pitch calling that most catchers cannot pick up on.

Coach calls outside curve and batter crushes it up the middle. Coach charts the pitch and will not throw that outside again to that batter. The problem is that in reality the pitch was thrown middle-in....the pitcher missed her spot. The reason the batter hit it up the middle was because she was way off the plate. So now the coach will probably call inside pitches to this hitter her next at bat, but the catcher can see that the hitter is not in position to hit outside pitches.

 

[Lenski]

One important point that you have failed to address is that coaches can and do track every pitch and every batter and exactly what they did during their last at bat. This information is very valuable to pitch calling that most catchers cannot pick up on.

Coach calls outside curve and batter crushes it up the middle. Coach charts the pitch and will not throw outside again to that batter. The problem is that in reality the pitch was thrown middle-in....the pitcher missed her spot. The reason the batter hit it up the middle was because she was way off the plate. So now the coach will probably call inside pitches to this hitter her next at bat, but the catcher can see that the hitter is not in position to hit outside pitches if the pitcher hits her spot. And therein lies the problem with calling pitches from the dugout. They do not have a feel for whether the pitcher is hitting her spots. A catcher can tell the coach that the pitcher is not hitting her spots but the coach will always refer back to the charts for pitch calling. A good catcher who gets to call her own game remembers these things and will try to nurse the pitcher through the battle. That is just something a signal caller from the dugout just cannot do.

 

[riseball]

Coach calls outside curve and batter crushes it up the middle. Coach charts the pitch and will not throw outside again to that batter. The problem is that in reality the pitch was thrown middle-in....the pitcher missed her spot. The reason the batter hit it up the middle was because she was way off the plate. So now the coach will probably call inside pitches to this hitter her next at bat, but the catcher can see that the hitter is not in position to hit outside pitches if the pitcher hits her spot. And therein lies the problem with calling pitches from the dugout. They do not have a feel for whether the pitcher is hitting her spots. A catcher can tell the coach that the pitcher is not hitting her spots but the coach will always refer back to the charts for pitch calling. A good catcher who gets to call her own game remembers these things and will try to nurse the pitcher through the battle. That is just something a signal caller from the dugout just cannot do.

Your assumption is that the coach is calling pitches in a vacuum. If it is truly a collaborative process involving the coach, catcher, and pitcher the scenario you describe is never an issue. This is how and why it works in elite programs.

 

[Phathead]

Did this last night. We are on new team 3rd tourny 18u. Coach asks me to call pitches for DD since he hasn't caught her before in practice. I talk to catcher we use 1 thru 4 lane on location and another sign if I want it up high in zone. I tell her th location in or out is area she has define/adjust to how pitcher is throwing and what blue is giving on the corners. Catcher meets with me between innings and we discuss the why's of the pitch calls. Hopefully the leads to her taking control nxt summer. As others stated have to be game situation to learn and they have to see many situations with different pitchers and different umpires.

 

[Lenski]

Your assumption is that the coach is calling pitches in a vacuum. If it is truly a collaborative process involving the coach, catcher, and pitcher the scenario you describe is never an issue. This is how and why it works in elite programs.

Yes, in an elite program. Are you saying that all programs are elite programs? The majority are not and my assumption is more the norm.

 

[riseball]

Yes, in an elite program. Are you saying that all programs are elite programs? The majority are not and my assumption is more the norm.

No, most programs are certainly not elite. But regardless of who calls the pitches, coach, catcher, or fairy godmother if it is not a collaborative effort it is less than optimal. To your point the norm is for either the coach to retain full control or to abdicate the authority to the catcher. Which is why the norm is for pitch calling results in poor to mediocre results. Unfortunately most teams have no idea how poor their pitch calling truly is and how ripe it is for improvement.

 

[cuzmail]

Great topic at the perfect time for us!
Here is what is going on with my DD recently.

Backstory:
DD has been trying to work with current coach about pitch calling. Coach is an older gentleman who seems to be very resistant to doing something outside of what he wants. I have been watching and trying to understand his pitch calling for a couple of tournaments and I see no rhyme or reason. DD has been on and off with her pitching lately and I believe I know why now. Coach gets stuck on one or two pitches and continues to call them over and over. DD's last two outings his pitch of choice was the drop ball and it wasn't working - DD couldn't get it up enough and it was always low. This led to a few walks in the previous outing which put her on the outs with the coach as far as pitching in games not to mention that it has negatively impacted her confidence in the drop. We had a conversation with the coach this past week about continuing to call a pitch that wasn't working when she has other pitch options that could be used. Honestly, the conversation went nowhere quickly.

Fast forward to this past weekend:
DD pitched good in one game, but not to her ability overall. I didn't even bother checking on the pitch calling knowing that she probably wouldn't see any more circle time this weekend. Well, I was wrong. In our semi final game yesterday the starter gets into trouble (mostly because of defensive miscues). Before we know it we are down 6-0 in the first inning with no outs recorded and bases loaded. Coach calls for a pitching change and brings in DD. He calls in inside fastball to start things off. Strike one looking, then it happened. Called drop, ball one. again, ball two, again, ball three, and yes you guessed it drop again for ball four. Crud, here we go again! DD get's a little mad and looks at him asking him to use other pitches. Thankfully he does, and she gets the remaining outs with one K, a weak grounder, and pop up to 1B. Now that's more like it!

During our at bat, Coach gets ejected questioning the umpire on a judgment call (called strike or swinging). This leads a pitch calling void. DW wants me to step in. I think it's the perfect opportunity for DD to practice pitch selection scenarios we have been working on. She and her catcher (both 13 yo) go to work and the results were very nice. First pitch weak grounder come back to her in the circle. One pitch, one out. Next batter was a K swinging. Third batter was a 2-2 count with both balls being good misses that could have gone either way. Then they called a curve ball over the middle - yes I said over the middle. That resulted in a nicely hit liner to center for a single with hopefully a lesson learned. Next batter was a weak pop up to SS. Good to see DD get back to a typical outing for her. She gave our team a chance to come back and get into the game. We weren't able to do it, but at least she did her job. Her confidence returned and she said she had fun pitching again.

Moral of the story:
I think these kids can do more than we give them credit for. Of course there will be bumps in the road and a learning curve, but with proper guidance and allowing them to work it out in the proper setting it can be done.

Now, how do we deal with the coach and let him know that his pitch calling needs to evolve?