Walk In Pitching Speed Increase

[Rick Pauly]

Rick, tell us about the men's game in this respect please.

With the rise in popularity of the ISC (International Softball Congress) in the mens elite level came the pitching rule that allowed the pitcher to start with only one foot on the rubber. The Kiwi's mastered this faster than the rest and became dominant in the sport.
When you watch an elite level mens pitcher they start with their landing foot significantly behind the rubber to the point that they get a running start off the rubber. They generate tremendous levels of energy and then when they land they transfer it into the hip snap, shoulder, arm, and finally to the fingers.
Almost all the dominant pitchers in elite level mens fastpitch use this technique.
If the rules reverted back to starting with both feet on the rubber their speeds would drop-----plus they probably wouldn't jump so far that their knuckles hit the batter in the face.

Here's an interesting thought for all-----check out the speed of your girls using the normal high school rule of only one foot on the rubber---then check out their speed using the ASA rule of two feet on the rubber.
Most high school pitchers don't really take advantage of the one foot on rule and get the running start like the men do.

 

[Hillhouse]

Rick

All due respect, I'm going to disagree with you on this. Kiwis (and now Aussies and Argentines) have blown past American males in pitching not because they've adapted to this faster, but because they play softball in school. Girls play softball in the USA schools, boys play softball in New Zealand schools. Same as Australia, etc.

ASA is the only governing body worldwide that allows male pitchers to step back with 1 foot. Every other country in the world does it under the International rule, which is the same for men and women. Why is ASA different? Because in an effort to keep up the numbers, they've relaxed their pitching 'rules'. Crow hopping, 1 foot on the rubber, etc. are all "illegal" anywhere else in the world. MOST Kiwis do not use 1 foot on the rubber even at the ISC. They use their same mechanics which were taught to them in youth. The difference is the legalization of crowhopping. Pitchers began doing this when the bats and balls started to become outrageous and they (we) needed to find a way to get the edge back.

As age crept into the men's game, fewer and fewer pitchers were coming up to replace those retiring. The only way to keep the game afloat in many places was to 'relax' the pitching rules which made it easier on pitchers to stay active and easier for new pitchers to throw. As a result of ASA's desire to keep numbers at all cost, most male pitchers learned how to pitch under rules which are illegal in other parts of the world. This is why the US Men's team has suffered, because all the upcoming pitchers are learning how to do it under ASA rules, not ISF. The transition from learning 1 foot pitching to 2 feet is a nightmare. Not to mention "crowhopping".

ISC has kept the 1 foot rule for a variety of reasons. But most of the foreign pitchers still use the rules of their homeland and do not 'cheat'. Pitchers have a choice of how to pitch at ISC events and those who are vying for a spot on their national team will use the ISF rule to show they can do it, show how effective they are with it, and keep themselves consistent for other competitions. However, the old timers and guys who are not playing for a spot on their Country's team will step back from the rubber. In one particular case, a guy who pitched for one of the world's best teams was asked by his country's national team coach to "use the ISF rule" at a major tournament for their evaluations. This pitcher promptly went out and threw with 1 foot on the rubber and jumped in his delivery. The Nat'l coach went over and and said "What are you doing? I need to see you throw ISF style". To which the pitcher replied "National team does not pay my bills like my club team does!"

yes, it gets confusing at times to know which "pitching rule" is being used. It should be uniformed across the board. But softball bodies will NEVER work together, neither will politicians. It's incredible to me that in the age of ILLEGAL bats and POLYCORE balls that a pitcher (male or female) needs to be restricted with 2 feet on the rubber. People want 1950's pitching rules but continue to allow progress in other areas. It's absolutely asinine.

Bill

 

[Mark H]

With the rise in popularity of the ISC (International Softball Congress) in the mens elite level came the pitching rule that allowed the pitcher to start with only one foot on the rubber. The Kiwi's mastered this faster than the rest and became dominant in the sport.
When you watch an elite level mens pitcher they start with their landing foot significantly behind the rubber to the point that they get a running start off the rubber. They generate tremendous levels of energy and then when they land they transfer it into the hip snap, shoulder, arm, and finally to the fingers.
Almost all the dominant pitchers in elite level mens fastpitch use this technique.
If the rules reverted back to starting with both feet on the rubber their speeds would drop-----plus they probably wouldn't jump so far that their knuckles hit the batter in the face.

And the few clips I've seen they look very smooth as opposed to the explosive nature of the movement women with two feet on the rubber exhibit. Wonder what this says about repetitive injury potentials of one vs the other.

 

[Rick Pauly]

Rick

All due respect, I'm going to disagree with you on this. Kiwis (and now Aussies and Argentines) have blown past American males in pitching not because they've adapted to this faster, but because they play softball in school. Girls play softball in the USA schools, boys play softball in New Zealand schools. Same as Australia, etc.

ASA is the only governing body worldwide that allows male pitchers to step back with 1 foot. Every other country in the world does it under the International rule, which is the same for men and women. Why is ASA different? Because in an effort to keep up the numbers, they've relaxed their pitching 'rules'. Crow hopping, 1 foot on the rubber, etc. are all "illegal" anywhere else in the world. MOST Kiwis do not use 1 foot on the rubber even at the ISC. They use their same mechanics which were taught to them in youth. The difference is the legalization of crowhopping. Pitchers began doing this when the bats and balls started to become outrageous and they (we) needed to find a way to get the edge back.

As age crept into the men's game, fewer and fewer pitchers were coming up to replace those retiring. The only way to keep the game afloat in many places was to 'relax' the pitching rules which made it easier on pitchers to stay active and easier for new pitchers to throw. As a result of ASA's desire to keep numbers at all cost, most male pitchers learned how to pitch under rules which are illegal in other parts of the world. This is why the US Men's team has suffered, because all the upcoming pitchers are learning how to do it under ASA rules, not ISF. The transition from learning 1 foot pitching to 2 feet is a nightmare. Not to mention "crowhopping".

ISC has kept the 1 foot rule for a variety of reasons. But most of the foreign pitchers still use the rules of their homeland and do not 'cheat'. Pitchers have a choice of how to pitch at ISC events and those who are vying for a spot on their national team will use the ISF rule to show they can do it, show how effective they are with it, and keep themselves consistent for other competitions. However, the old timers and guys who are not playing for a spot on their Country's team will step back from the rubber. In one particular case, a guy who pitched for one of the world's best teams was asked by his country's national team coach to "use the ISF rule" at a major tournament for their evaluations. This pitcher promptly went out and threw with 1 foot on the rubber and jumped in his delivery. The Nat'l coach went over and and said "What are you doing? I need to see you throw ISF style". To which the pitcher replied "National team does not pay my bills like my club team does!"

yes, it gets confusing at times to know which "pitching rule" is being used. It should be uniformed across the board. But softball bodies will NEVER work together, neither will politicians. It's incredible to me that in the age of ILLEGAL bats and POLYCORE balls that a pitcher (male or female) needs to be restricted with 2 feet on the rubber. People want 1950's pitching rules but continue to allow progress in other areas. It's absolutely asinine.

Bill

Hey Bill shoot me an email about the clinic proposal with Ernie.
Guess things have changed a bit since my day---either I'm to old or your to young Bill. My day bridged the ascent of ISC and decline of ASA at the elite mens level. ISC was the body that started the one foot rule and allowed the foreign players into their "World Tournament". In those days the pitching was dominated by Kiwis and Canadians-----there were a few good Americans but it was declining fast. No Aussies or Argentines in site at that time. I "assume" the ASA finally gave in to the one foot rule to try to keep pace with the ISC. Additionally, the ASA did manage to put some stipulations into place to allow foreign players into their National Championship (had to be in the country by a certain date, etc.)

What is your opinion relative to a gain in speed if the one foot rule is used?
Rick

 

[BLB]

Rick

In one particular case, a guy who pitched for one of the world's best teams was asked by his country's national team coach to "use the ISF rule" at a major tournament for their evaluations. This pitcher promptly went out and threw with 1 foot on the rubber and jumped in his delivery. The Nat'l coach went over and and said "What are you doing? I need to see you throw ISF style". To which the pitcher replied "National team does not pay my bills like my club team does!"

Bill

Just curious. The pitcher you are referring to wouldn't be GM by any chance? I haven't seen him at Canadian Championships for some years. The last time I saw him compete here, he seemed to have problems pitching with both feet on the slab.

 

[Hillhouse]

Hi Rick

I'll address the ISC/ASA stuff in a little bit... but 2 things:

In regards to Ernie, he called me 2 weeks ago when I was arriving in Orlando for a tournament. Disney/AAU hold an international men's fastpitch tournament each January. Nobody is in shape to play in mid January but it's still fun to get out of snow and see everyone. I'm still VERY sore. Anyway, he mentioned wanting to do a clinic somewhere like the one you guys did before and asked if I'd be interested. So, we'll see what happens.

There is no question, using 1 foot is an advantage in picking up speed. It's simple leverage and allows more weight transfer for the push off, which is where the power is. As I've said before, it's sad they keep the pitching rules so antiquated but allow new bats/balls every year.

Bill

 

[Hillhouse]

BLB..

No, not GM. His initials are KG and played for Rick's old Farm team.

His point was well taken, there's a lot of money in men's club fastpitch. It's not the club team's job to develop/train the National team pitchers. Those pitchers need to do what will win them games.

A lot of pitchers struggle with keeping 2 feet on the rubber, and not jumping in today's game. Even women are getting more and more into 'jumping' because they need to do SOMETHING to compensate for the new bats/balls being used.

USA/ASA is the only govening body which doesn't make pitchers use 2 feet at Nationals. Canada, NZ, Australia, etc. all follow ISF rules. Many Canadians play in the US where the rules are less restrictive... although those pitchers also do not play on their national team either.

 

[Hillhouse]

Hey Bill shoot me an email about the clinic proposal with Ernie.
Guess things have changed a bit since my day---either I'm to old or your to young Bill. My day bridged the ascent of ISC and decline of ASA at the elite mens level. ISC was the body that started the one foot rule and allowed the foreign players into their "World Tournament". In those days the pitching was dominated by Kiwis and Canadians-----there were a few good Americans but it was declining fast. No Aussies or Argentines in site at that time. I "assume" the ASA finally gave in to the one foot rule to try to keep pace with the ISC. Additionally, the ASA did manage to put some stipulations into place to allow foreign players into their National Championship (had to be in the country by a certain date, etc.)

Rick, I am not sure the ISC is the ones who opened the pitching rule to 1 foot. But at this point, it's irrelevant.

These days Australia has burst onto the scene with 2 of the best pitchers in the world and Argentina has come on strong too with several top chuckers. NZ and Canada still have the 2 top teams in the world and some of the best pitching talent but, they now have serious competition. USA is struggling bad. The last time I pitched for USA (2000 in South Africa), 2 of our 4 pitchers were not born in the USA. I was told once that it's been almost 40 yrs since USA had an exclusively "born in USA" roster.

Believe it or not, these days ASA has less restrictions than ISC does for both pitching and players.

Bill