Uppercut Swing

[Mark H]

I don't care to break it up that way. Some say hips, some say legs, some say hands. I say it's a systems problem with a total systems solution. Everything needs to do it's job and do it well.

 

[Mark H]

So you dont think the activity of the legs driving gets the hips and shoulders working up through to the arms?

Now putting the question that way, with the legs as support, the muscles from the upper thigh to the lower torso shift and rotate the pelvis storing momentum and loading the body to quickly release the energy starting with the large proximal parts flowing in a kinetic chain to the smaller distal parts of the body.

 

[tom.guerry]

hit dr -

I suspect Mark will agree with the double pendulum as the most basic model for the swing.

The devil is in the details of how this is modified to best resemble the way the body executes the swing

In simplest terms, the torso and attched lead arm is the first pendulum and the bat is the second pendulum and the wrist is the hinge that joins them.

The wrist is active in humans rather than passive via the two handed grip which allows for quite a bit of torque to be actively applied which creates resistance to turning with the first pendulum which goves the hands and upper limbs the capacity to control the swing timing/power/direction.

The 2 plane golf swing (involving motor programs like the overhand throw as well that have an upper body and lower body and synch program) and "x-factor stretch" principles are also important for how the torso loads and unloads as is the principle of the kinetic link/chain/summation of levers/summation of velocity/addition/segmentation/whip whatever you want to call it.

The key is to have adjustable power AND quickness AND ability to start the quick swing of the MLB patern well behind the hitter so as to maximize read time and contact zone for square contact.

So the question is not just power, but quickness as hands stay back.

Keeping these things in mind, what exactly do you want to know about powering the MLB pattern swing ?

 

[Wellphyt]

The seperation of the lower and upper half is how the power is generated. The power gets stored in the hips until the switch (heel drop) tells the hips to release the stored up power.

So in a round about way I would say that the power comes from the hips.

I also think that the triceps generate a small amount of power when the elbows release and the arms extend through the ball into the power V.

 

[Hit Dr.24]

Are the hips a source of power or is it the muscles of the Abs, Lats and Arms connecting to whip the bat through the zone?

 

[Mark H]

Are the hips a source of power or is it the muscles of the Abs, Lats and Arms connecting to whip the bat through the zone?

Again, it's not this or that. It's everything.

 

[Wellphyt]

Are the hips a source of power or is it the muscles of the Abs, Lats and Arms connecting to whip the bat through the zone?

In the interest of discussion I'll play along.

I would argue that for players not taking steroids, the best way to increase bat speed is to work on strengthening the legs, obliques/rotational abdominal muscles and triceps.

However by focusing in on individual muscle groups there is a risk of losing site of the source of the power which is the seperation of the upper and lower body. The seperation aspect of the swing is not a muscle group it is a movement.

When teaching my DD, the way I show her how to generate power is for her to regain a balanced position in her stride, created seperation of her upper and lower body, lead with her hips and keep her hands inside the ball/close to her body to maximize bat speed. I never talk about pulling the bat knob with the lead arm, pinching back scaps, THT etc.

It seems like a lot of the discussion regarding the rotational swing is shifting away from the core components of the swing as descibed by Ted Williams, and more to non-teachable movements as described by the newer hitting gurus and kinesiologist.

It's almost like we are forgetting that much of the power generation for the swing comes from being loose and fluid. I don't see how a hitter can be loose and fluid if they get too bogged down into the weeds of the swing.

Some say that Epstein's approach creates an artificial ceiling because he doesn't teach certain aspects of the swing that he considers non-teachable movements. I would argue that the gurus that are teaching some of these non-teachable movements are the ones that will create ceilings for the hitters because they are going to produce hitters that overthink the process and are too robotic.

It's almost getting to the point where it's blashemy to say that many of the movements that we see in the rotational swing are instinctive adjustments to the on-coming pitch.

 

[Mark H]

As to separation, certainly it's about the kinetic chain. OTOH, that's not the whole story either. I see lots of poor youth hitters with lots of separation. One instructor suggests the more separation the better. I suggest it's more important for each segment to link up with the next segment and transfer it's energy at the moment of highest rotational velocity. The number one constraint on hitters is of course time. There is never enough time. To the extent separation, hips getting ahead of the shoulders rotation for instance, doesn't impact swing quickness, fine.

 

[tom.guerry]

hit and well-

I think it is best to think of power/quickness being produced by the "kinetic link"/summation/addition. This means you use the body in sequence with each successive segment showing efficient speed gains. hips, torso, hands, bathead.

This is adequately measured by motionanalysis where you can tell when each of these segments gets to peak angular momentum/velocity and whether or not there was the expected spped gain with each link.

The swing takes a certain amount of horsepower which requires big muscles to contribute, and the main source are the trunk muscles from midthigh to neck NOT including shoulders which is the way Dixon defined the "torso".

Some motionanalysis numbers based on a database of thousands of swings including many MLB hitters:

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

http://www.batspeed.com/messageboard/10571.html


I like Epstein approach which is based on the importance of the kinetic link and the focus on body torque/stretch as foundation of swing.

 

[Wellphyt]

I suggest it's more important for each segment to link up with the next segment and transfer it's energy at the moment of highest rotational velocity. The number one constraint on hitters is of course time. There is never enough time.

I agree that the efficient transfer of energy is a critical part of the rotational swing. I would argue that the best way for a hitter to do this is for them to be loose and not be constrained by overthinking the process.

Which is why I think Ted had it right. 1) The hips lead the hands, 2) Swing level to the ball, 3) Keep your hands inside the ball.

Build your swing mechanics around these three core principles and when it's time to swing, GO!

I believe once the heel drops and the hips trigger, instincts play a much bigger role in the swing than a lot of people care to admit.

There is a good video clip of Slaught describing how the body is designed to work from the inside out (hands inside the ball). And if the hitter is prepared to cover the up and in pitch they will instinctively be able to adjust to pitches out over the plate by naturally releasing the angles in their elbows and wrist.