TTB and Swing Adjustability

[julray]

WILLIAMS: Now, if I swing slightly up, I hit it with the greatest impact. This swing incorporates the single most important thing—not shifting your weight but getting your butt moving, your hips working.

I read it all.. I am referring to this quote
""Try to swing down. There's no hip movement at all there. "
You are not understanding my point, I'm not saying Williams did not incorporate the hips/core in his swing. I am talking about the portion of the discussion where he's referring to swinging down. Maybe you are just misinterpreting on purpose to cause confusion, IDK.

 

[julray]

This entire discussion with all due respect has become a little too focused on one hitter. He was a great hitter, make no mistake. But your argument that hitters contradict the idea of "down to" hold no weight whatsoever. I can show you hundreds of videos(already have) of the best hitters in the game right now and HOF's demoing, practicing, game swings that match down to. You provided me one magazine clip from 1984 and even then the comment about the hips completely holds no water.. it's not a high level movement if there is no hip movement.

100 people in one room, 99 say the wall is black and one says white...

 

[julray]

James, the legs should feel leveraged against the core. IOW's the core is streching until it contracts. Nothing should be stretched and then held.. Think SSC.

Your attempt appears locked up (no SSC) through the core so you need to shift to the front leg and then use the arms to swing down.

The core (obliques) stretching is a relaxed feeling until the contraction occurs.

First of all, thanks again to James for taking this video. It really does illustrate what a lot of people think down to is. TDS made some good points above, just want to add my two cents as well, there is 0 posture in this swing. No major league hitter swings with their shoulders level like that unless its a shoulder high pitch. This is an excellent video for those who think they understand what down to is. You see Pujois's video(Isolating hand path) and this is what you visualize happens based off that video. I know I did as well first. And that's where the misunderstanding is. Posture is lacking in this swing., down to still involves working the shoulders(tilt to match pitch height) and lateral tilt.

If we take the hitter in this swing

 

[TDS]

But he decried swinging down and even wrote a book about swinging slightly up. There are videos with him swinging slightly up. There are videos of all the pros swinging slightly up.
Do you define up as toward the sky from flat horizontal and down as toward the ground from flat horizontal or do you have a different meaning like Julray's bs?

From a leveraged fyb position the barrel is swung down to and then levels off and goes back up. Folks who are aiming for the top of the ball are doing so during the leveling off.

 

[julray]

But he decried swinging down and even wrote a book about swinging slightly up. There are videos with him swinging slightly up. There are videos of all the pros swinging slightly up.
Do you define up as toward the sky from flat horizontal and down as toward the ground from flat horizontal or do you have a different meaning like Julray's bs?

Wth are you talking about?

 

[james27503]

First of all, thanks again to James for taking this video. It really does illustrate what a lot of people think down to is. TDS made some good points above, just want to add my two cents as well, there is 0 posture in this swing. No major league hitter swings with their shoulders level like that unless its a shoulder high pitch. This is an excellent video for those who think they understand what down to is. You see Pujois's video(Isolating hand path) and this is what you visualize happens based off that video. I know I did as well first. And that's where the misunderstanding is. Posture is lacking in this swing., down to still involves working the shoulders(tilt to match pitch height) and lateral tilt.

If we take the hitter in this swing

First, this is not down to, to me. There are different ways of getting down to. I was demoing what they were showing, which is a down to where the barrel never drops below the shoulder corner. It never gets beside the deltoid.

To me it is "down to", but down to from behind. Take a golf shot, a driver tee shot. Now move the tee up. That is pretty much it. I also videoed my normal swing after that where I swung with the intention of down to from behind and all of the things being mentioned about the other swing went away.

And that is my point, you can't really swing properly with the barrel path that they demo. That is Ted Williams point also!!! Everything he said would happen happened to me as tried to do the chop demo. My hips didn't work, my posture was off, it is a bad teach for my brain and also many others. If someone said hit a golf ball down the fairway and then move the tee up 2 feet, then I would get it. But if you demoed the "straight to the ball" swing you would pound the golf ball in the ground like a nail.

 

[james27503]

In all fairness can you say their demo is a good representation of down to and up through, or does it show down to and down through?

 

[julray]

In all fairness can you say their demo is a good representation of down to and up through, or does it show down to and down through?

I've already added my thoughts in regard to that above (referencing your swing), I mentioned Pujois and I don't think I can explain it any better than that.

 

[TDS]

 

[_MIA_]

But he decried swinging down and even wrote a book about swinging slightly up. There are videos with him swinging slightly up. There are videos of all the pros swinging slightly up.
Do you define up as toward the sky from flat horizontal and down as toward the ground from flat horizontal or do you have a different meaning like Julray's bs?

The barrel goes down initially for all hitters. I don't think anybody is arguing against that nor the fact that near impact the barrel is going to be on a slightly upward path. A good barrel path is not hard to recognize. The question is how to produce it