Transgender law allows CA male to make girls' softball team

[JJsqueeze]

I worked with a transgendered person for about three months once. She was a temp on a production line for one of our products. The other ladies got pretty upset at having to share the bathroom with her and there were a lot of complaints. At the time I just thought of it as a managerial inconvenience, until I sat down and had lunch with her. She was a nice, quiet, humble woman and I was ashamed of the he-she jokes I had made in discussing it with other managers. From that point on I defended her right to work- use the bathroom etc. she was completely ostricized and eventually quit, but my take away was that something very real must be going on for her to put herself through this and since then I have always supported their right to participate in society as full fledged women/girls. This includes softball and while I don't expect people to be comfortable with it, I don't think i am actually comfortable with it, I do think they can accept it.

 

[Comp]

With this law, how long before there is a "transgendered" high school, or a high school with enough "transgendered" players that the entire team is made up of them? Then what?

I may have posted this before on DFP in the past. My daughters high school varsity softball and baseball teams used to have a yearly friendly game of softball between the girls and boys after the season was over. It was all fun and games for a long time until the boys decided to take the game serious and played to win. The baseball catcher hit a comebacker at the pitcher so hard she never saw it leave the bat. It went just over her left shoulder and nicked her ear. Later in the game the same boy hit a ball so far it was just landing as he was rounding 3rd base. It will only be a matter of time if they continue to allow this before there is a serious injury to a girl caused by a "transgendered" player.

Now the question is, are the laws going to force club ball teams to also allow them to play?

 

[PA SB Dad]

I think they will eventually make refinements to the law as time goes on. I think it is one thing to be genetically female but look male as a definition of transgendered for the purposes of athletics, but to allow a general rule that allows an athlete to declare oneself transgendered without additional proof seems problematic. A similar issue has come up recently on the Iranian women's national soccer team: Women’s Soccer Players In Iran Face Gender Tests After Men Found On National Team | Soccer | NESN.com

 

[JJsqueeze]

"It ain't a problem until there's a problem". Its going to blow over with all the circus attention until this kid cranks a dozen out of the park... then we'll see how understanding their opponents are within the conference.

If she has an unfair competitive advantage being a male then I think it is perfectly reasonable to change the rule, but I think it makes sense to allow this to go on until that actually happens and not presumptively bar them from playing based on the assumption that it could happen.

 

[CoogansBluff]

I think they will eventually make refinements to the law as time goes on. I think it is one thing to be genetically female but look male as a definition of transgendered for the purposes of athletics, but to allow a general rule that allows an athlete to declare oneself transgendered without additional proof seems problematic.

California does require that a transgendered person go through an appeals process, which is outlined here -

http://www.cifstate.org/images/PDF/...delines_for_gender_identity_participation.pdf

With this law, how long before there is a "transgendered" high school, or a high school with enough "transgendered" players that the entire team is made up of them? Then what?

If states stick to guidelines like the ones that California has, this as an unrealistic possibility, IMO.

Concerns over competitive balance and safety are natural and understandable. But we might find through the experiences of California and other states that it's no big deal and that our current generation of teenagers is surprisingly accepting of it. I hope that's the case. Sometimes you don't know until you try.

"All we are saying, is give Pat a chance.'' - Lennon

 

[Momo'sDad]

It doesn't, I agree. However, you cannot discuss this issue without addressing the underlying moral assumptions being made by the State of California. That is a giant can of worms that may be better left off of this website. Especially given that those who make and support such laws under the guise of "tolerance" are often the most viciously intolerant of those who dissent from their views. I'm bowing out of this one.

It seems that the fear-mongers are already out in full force here. 'Viciously intolerant'?

I understand that most people want to live in a binary world and I understand why. You have the right to view the world from your own perspective. What you aren't able to do, however, is to assign that worldview to everyone else.

When girls wanted to join 'boys' wrestling teams, the complaints sounded something like this:

"It's not fair. I've taught my sons never to strike or touch girls in a rough way."
"It's not fair. Wrestling is a boys' sport."
"It's not fair. If a boy beats the girl, then he beat a girl, big deal. But if he LOSES to a girl, then it could really damage his self-esteem."
"It's not fair, because most boys are not going to go all out against a girl."
"It's not fair. What if the girl gets hurt? How's the boy going to feel?"
"It's not fair. What if a boy wanted to join a girls' team??"

Raise your hand if any of that sounds familiar. Now, there are more opportunities than ever for girls who want to wrestle competitively and the above conversation is largely a thing of the past.

 

[Momo'sDad]

IMHO, (please note that I'm not only one person with a "delete thread option") the topic is OK.

Please stick to the topic. Seems we have people chomping at the bit to discuss generally the intolerance of liberals/conservatives.

Sounds good to me. I'll try to be gentle.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

... I'm bowing out of this one.

I saw Washington state put something in place to deal with this back in 2009. I was hoping someone could share what has transpired up there.

 

[Momo'sDad]

IMO, AB1266 is a bad law, because it's too far-reaching. I hate to use such a vague, catch-all term, but specifically, I am not in support of eliminating sex-specific sports, which could happen in response to and as an eventual outcome of a law like this. It does not have widespread public support, even among ardent supporters of the LGBTQ community. The repeal effort got the requisite number of signatures to bring the question to public referendum in November, but it'll be another week before the total is verified. I did not sign the petition to repeal, because the signature drive in our town was organized by an anti-gay group. But I may still vote to repeal if it makes it to the ballot.

When traveling in many parts of Europe, I've seen unisex lavatories. To be honest, I don't understand how people spend time thinking about who's in the room when they're relieving themselves. I can only speak for myself, but when I go, I just go. And when there's a 20-person queue for the women's restroom at the fields and no waiting for the men's, rather than wait 10+ minutes, my daughter goes to the stall with no waiting. If she's been traumatized by that, there's no evidence of it.

In closing, I don't see a problem with public restrooms being used by anyone, regardless of gender identity, however I am empathetic to the position that opening sex-designated locker rooms and sports teams to everyone should be more carefully considered before implementation. If a larger-than-average girl tackles and injures a smaller girl in a contact sport, that's not substantively different from a large boy tackling and injuring her. I think we've got to have a longer conversation about the potential for genetic males to decide that the best way to get college paid for is to deliberately self-identify as girls for a few years in order to compete for sports scholarships.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Someone just outed themself as an attorney^^^