This new training tool reflects a whole hitting philosophy...is it right?

[Ken Krause]

Guys, this discussion has gone from one about a hitting device and its validity to a personal contest between two people and everything they've ever posted anywhere. Let's get back on-topic, although I think this topic is pretty much played out. I don't think anyone thinks the device is worthwhile. Unless there's a dissenting opinion to that let's move on.

 

[ian]

Gratuitous pattern to match miggy vid.

Cabrera's night at the Derby | MLB.com

 

[lhowser]

Guys, this discussion has gone from one about a hitting device and its validity to a personal contest between two people and everything they've ever posted anywhere. Let's get back on-topic, although I think this topic is pretty much played out. I don't think anyone thinks the device is worthwhile. Unless there's a dissenting opinion to that let's move on.

Ken I somewhat agree. The discussion was intended to be about the device but more importantly - "is the hitting philosophy the device supports correct". And there has been some excellent discussion about it. Howe unfortunately positioned his posts as combative challenging isolated statements by MarkH like a prosecuting attorney with digs and sarcasm as opposed to describing what he believed MarkH's flaw was and explaining the alternative. That is what takes these threads off track.

How is the movement of the barrel connected to shoulder rotation? How is shoulder rotation connected to hip rotation. When do the arms and or hands become independent from this rotation? All questions related to what the training device does and a good discussion.

 

[Howe]

Digs and sarcasm failed this time I suppose? I was sparring not so much with a "person" but with a philosophy. The same philosophy that uses 8-9 year old dated videos - poor quality and mislabeled - as their proof.

So let me try one more time. Listen to the words and watch the actions. Tell me if they match the best.
This:


Vs. This:

If they don't match, why would you burn in a pattern that hamstrings your hitter(s)???

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Howe, I'm interested in further discussion on the topic.

In your video segment Jack states that "staying connected to that rotation of the body is the key to really hitting with power."

Hmm ... "staying"???

It isn't just the initiation of the swing that Jack is talking about. He is not talking about the initial 'pivot' action and the transfer of energy through the lead arm to the bottom hand ... he is not speaking of connection as just 'swing initiation' ... he is speaking of remaining connected. He is specifically not speaking of a 'slinging' like action ... not SnF ... not sling ... but remaining 'fixed' to the body's rotation. In the very next sentence, without hesitation, Jack states "Now notice that once the back elbow now lowers down to the hip, it stays back at the hip and rotates with it all the way to contact."

I have dealt with the issue of hitters gluing their rear elbow to their body's rotation, and forcing their body's rotation to get the job done. Have dealt with this many many times. It's a significant issue. What Jack is describing is 'bad'.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

To further the discussion, what I see in Miggy's swing is the Pivot leading to a transfer/flow of energy through the lead shoulder, down the lead arm, and to what equates to a 'pull' on the barrel with the bottom hand. During this time the lead upper arm basically rests/hugs the upper body.

From here the barrel becomes slung/thrown/flailed into and through impact. There is no maintained connection to contact as Jack spoke of.

 

[tjintx]

IMO, staying DISCONNECTED as long as possible while the body sets the direction allows for the barrel to be set on plane and adjusted late while maximizing a free flowing barrel.
I also believe trying to persuade Mr. H. of any of this is a waste if time. He has a set of beliefs that require only the highest caliber athlete to succeed because they can overcome the deficiencies placed on them.

 

[Howe]

Howe, I'm interested in further discussion on the topic.

In your video segment Jack states that "staying connected to that rotation of the body is the key to really hitting with power."

Hmm ... "staying"???

It isn't just the initiation of the swing that Jack is talking about. He is not talking about the initial 'pivot' action and the transfer of energy through the lead arm to the bottom hand ... he is not speaking of connection as just 'swing initiation' ... he is speaking of remaining connected. He is specifically not speaking of a 'slinging' like action ... not SnF ... not sling ... but remaining 'fixed' to the body's rotation. In the very next sentence, without hesitation, Jack states "Now notice that once the back elbow now lowers down to the hip, it stays back at the hip and rotates with it all the way to contact."

I have dealt with the issue of hitters gluing their rear elbow to their body's rotation, and forcing their body's rotation to get the job done. Have dealt with this many many times. It's a significant issue. What Jack is describing is 'bad'.

Exactly Five. That old analysis and teaching is flawed and still get's perpetuated/marketed.

I admit to having bad manners sometimes when pointing it out. And it's probably cryptic to some who don't know the history.

Sorry for that folks.

 

[Howe]

More:

If the best defense to what is being pointed out, is to try and box me in with labels - than they already lost the discussion.

 

[mann]

To further the discussion, what I see in Miggy's swing is the Pivot leading to a transfer/flow of energy through the lead shoulder, down the lead arm, and to what equates to a 'pull' on the barrel with the bottom hand. During this time the lead upper arm basically rests/hugs the upper body.

From here the barrel becomes slung/thrown/flailed into and through impact. There is no maintained connection to contact as Jack spoke of.

You can see this space widen, the hug against the body, widen in miggys swing clearly, this is the flingy part. but he is right in you must efficiently use the rotational force.