This new training tool reflects a whole hitting philosophy...is it right?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Very good comments. Tough to teach. Focusing on connection is an easier teach.

How do you go about teaching a hitter to focus on connection?

Some prior swing clips that you have shared ....

It is understandable why you ask if Jack has this correct. IMO he does not have this correct.

 

[lhowser]

How do you go about teaching a hitter to focus on connection?

Some prior swing clips that you have shared ....

It is understandable why you ask if Jack has this correct. IMO he does not have this correct.

FFS,

That's what I was saying to FP26 - "Good comments...a tough teach" meaning that furthering of this conversation on this thread would be to discuss the alternative way's to Mankin's description to hit and to communicate that alternative method that was different than the comments on Mankin's video.

Maybe a little off point to post some of of the more challenged swings I have posted to demonstrate that along the hitting journey we have worked on maintaining the box and elbow spacing but that's up to you. Now if you would like spend a few sentences explaining to what degree the barrel connects to shoulder and core rotation so you provide additional insight to this statement.

"IMO he does not have this correct"

That could be helpful.

 

[Howe]

lhowser,
There are some boogeymen created at these hitting sites and they get exploited. When I see those swings that Five posted, two very big ones come to mind; the fear of "bat drag" and the fear of "not turning the barrel". Am I right?

If you go to this thread (http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting-technical/24360-swing-help-15.html#post374490) and watch manns recent work with a young lady, it may help. In your case, you may need to have your student(s) unlearn some things first.

 

[lhowser]

lhowser,
There are some boogeymen created at these hitting sites and they get exploited. When I see those swings that Five posted, two very big ones come to mind; the fear of "bat drag" and the fear of "not turning the barrel". Am I right?

If you go to this thread (http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting-technical/24360-swing-help-15.html#post374490) and watch manns recent work with a young lady, it may help. In your case, you may need to have your student(s) unlearn some things first.

Bat drag has not been much of an issue. The young ladies I have had the chance to work with (my daughters, two teams of locals) have been really good at the plate out hitting most compo that we play in the 12,14 and 16 levels so I know we are doing some good things.

As you guessed a distinctive has been "turning the barrel" and having the barrel turn connect to core rotation. The vast number of young ladies I have seen struggle in a couple of areas.

1. They leave the barrel behind as they swing, often straightening arms or having bat drag
2. They are instructed "take hands to the ball" with an exaggerated demo pushing the knob to the ball and snapping the wrist.

As I have worked with the girls we have seen the elbow stall (with my DD) with to much focus on the connection so we continue to change. I thought FP26 was interesting in that he feels the Mankin teaching is really a non-teach, it is a sometimes result. It is the cornerstone of Mankin's instruction.

With my DD (she is very good at age 15 relative to peers) we have been more focusing on early hand use, connecting early barrel movement to the early core turn and then keeping the barrel on the path of the pitch through contact (thus freeing the arms and elbow up). Just a few thoughts to further the discussion.

 

[FP26]

As I have worked with the girls we have seen the elbow stall (with my DD) with to much focus on the connection so we continue to change. I thought FP26 was interesting in that he feels the Mankin teaching is really a non-teach, it is a sometimes result. It is the cornerstone of Mankin's instruction.

I see it as a "chicken or the egg" type discussion in many ways. I realize that there are many instructors out there that focus on the "connection" type of structure, and I don't doubt that it can be beneficial for some if taught properly. But I have also seen some that take it too far and become "too connected" for lack of a better term. As with most other things discussed here, too much can be a bad thing. At least in my opinion.

My preference is to focus on the hands, and to allow the wrists, forearms, elbows, etc. to provide the necessary structure to allow the hands to work properly. In a way, I guess some of it can be viewed as "connection". But I am not looking for a rigid structure. I would prefer dynamic structure that can be reactive in time and space (I hope that makes sense). When working with a hitter, we will spend some time working on tee drills hitting the ball from different locations (inside/outside -- up/down). I am watching the use of the hands/arms/torso during these swings and adjusting when necessary. The hitter can also receive immediate feedback based on where the ball goes. Then we will move to front toss from a short distance (15 feet or so). Again I will work different zones. Then we will move to front toss from a longer distance. Rinse and repeat... After their hands start working how I want them to, I will then start adjusting speeds. Rinse and repeat....

I don't mean to disparage Mankin or his teachings. Just the opposite in fact. Another hobby of mine is as a math tutor for a number of DD's friends. Working one on one with each, it is very clear that each has their own level of understanding and the most efficient way for me to teach them is to reach them in a way that makes sense TO THEM. It really doesn't matter how smart I am, or how well I know the subject matter, if I can not teach it to the student. The teaching part is the most important to me. So having different tools in the tool box or different methods to utilize can be the difference sometimes. If it works for you, great. I just don't like cookie cutters.

 

[Howe]

Very nice post FP.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

How do you go about teaching a hitter to focus on connection?

Some prior swing clips that you have shared ....

It is understandable why you ask if Jack has this correct. IMO he does not have this correct.

FFS,

That's what I was saying to FP26 - "Good comments...a tough teach" meaning that furthering of this conversation on this thread would be to discuss the alternative way's to Mankin's description to hit and to communicate that alternative method that was different than the comments on Mankin's video.

Maybe a little off point to post some of of the more challenged swings I have posted to demonstrate that along the hitting journey we have worked on maintaining the box and elbow spacing but that's up to you. Now if you would like spend a few sentences explaining to what degree the barrel connects to shoulder and core rotation so you provide additional insight to this statement.

"IMO he does not have this correct"

That could be helpful.

Not at all off topic. You wrote that focusing on connection was an easier teach. Given your first hand experiences, and there were more similar swing clips from you over the years, wouldn't you suggest that easier may not be better?

 

[lhowser]

Not at all off topic. You wrote that focusing on connection was an easier teach. Given your first hand experiences, and there were more similar swing clips from you over the years, wouldn't you suggest that easier may not be better?

Yes, absolutely. Easier is not better. That's what I am enjoying about this thread.

Your Ah ha gotcha approach on this site sometimes times rubs people the wrong way and it's hard for you to see that it is you and your communication style not them BUT your input on this site has been very very valuable to me and I am sure many others. I appreciate it.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Bat drag has not been much of an issue. The young ladies I have had the chance to work with (my daughters, two teams of locals) have been really good at the plate out hitting most compo that we play in the 12,14 and 16 levels so I know we are doing some good things.

As you guessed a distinctive has been "turning the barrel" and having the barrel turn connect to core rotation. The vast number of young ladies I have seen struggle in a couple of areas.

1. They leave the barrel behind as they swing, often straightening arms or having bat drag
2. They are instructed "take hands to the ball" with an exaggerated demo pushing the knob to the ball and snapping the wrist.

As I have worked with the girls we have seen the elbow stall (with my DD) with to much focus on the connection so we continue to change. I thought FP26 was interesting in that he feels the Mankin teaching is really a non-teach, it is a sometimes result. It is the cornerstone of Mankin's instruction.

With my DD (she is very good at age 15 relative to peers) we have been more focusing on early hand use, connecting early barrel movement to the early core turn and then keeping the barrel on the path of the pitch through contact (thus freeing the arms and elbow up). Just a few thoughts to further the discussion.

Often the teaching of 'connection' places a bandaide on 'bat drag'. People don't see it because it is hidden by another issue.

Regarding the 'bold' ... SnF, which is generally part of many that have mentioned the turning of the barrel, is NOT 'connection'.

 

[lhowser]

My preference is to focus on the hands, and to allow the wrists, forearms, elbows, etc. to provide the necessary structure to allow the hands to work properly. In a way, I guess some of it can be viewed as "connection". But I am not looking for a rigid structure. I would prefer dynamic structure that can be reactive in time and space (I hope that makes sense).

That works to help be FP26. That's where we have been working in recent wiffle pitch from about 25ft.