Team change again!

[guero_gordo]

It's simple, really. Recruiters like myself and college coaches see team jumping as a sign that a girl cannot or will not compete for her position or playing time. It is a sign of a girl moving around in order to get more of both far more often than it is a sign of a girl looking for a good fit. It is also a sign of nutso parents quite often, as well.

I can't help what you choose to see, but that is simplistic, not simple, because you string together a series of assumptions.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I can't help what you choose to see, but that is simplistic, not simple, because you string together a series of assumptions.

It really isn't what I choose to see. It is what intensive investigations reveal to be true more often than not.

When a girl who comes on the radar has been on a different team every year, we make it a point to find out why. We ask questions of old coaches, we ask questions of parents on those older teams, we find out if the bulk of the other girls remained on the teams she left. We ask questions of players that were on teams with her. A picture always emerges and makes it easier to determine the motive for changing teams. Was it because that was the best thing to do? Was it because she is a team jumper?

Two hypotheticals to try and explain it more:

1. Angela is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She is a very good player who has been on our radar for at least a year, but this year she has been playing with a competitor so we have not recruited her or spoken with her parents. The year before, she was with another competitor but we hadn't really noticed her. The year before that, she was with another class A team that was good but not quite upper echelon. The year before that, she was with a lower-level team that struggled most of the year.

2. Lexie is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She has been with one of our competitors this year and we have played against her several times. She is a good player who has what it takes to make one of our teams. The year before, she was with another competitor. The year before that, a different competitor. The year before that she was with a second-tier class A club.

On the outside, if one were to look at this simplistically, these girls and their history would be quite similar. However, they are not.

Angela is trying out for a few different 16U Gold teams to find the best fit. Her current team is aging up but the girls will be going to 16U Gold so they are going separate ways. The year before, she left the team because she was the lone 2000 on a very good 1999 team. She left the team before that because she was one of a couple of 2000s on a 2001 team. She left the team before that because it was mediocre and she wanted to be on a better team, which was accomplished.

Lexie is a 2000 on a very good 2000 team. All the girls are going to 16U Gold so it is customary for them to be trying out a few different places. The year before, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together. We found out that she started the year as the #1 SS but was moved to 3B about half way through the year. The year before that, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together, as well. Our investigation revealed that she started the year as the #1 SS for the team but was moved to 2B for the important tourneys late in the season. The year before that, she was on a 2000 team and was the starting 2B for a month or two but was moved to LF for the rest of the season.

If we sere simple, we'd just assume both these girls are team jumpers or that they're both equal. But we investigate and we find out why. Needless to say, we'd be looking hard at Angela but Lexie would have a tough time making one of our teams.

Hope that helps. It really isn't what I choose to believe. It is what I find out to be true that tips the cap in one direction or the other. Other coaches I know won't even bother with investigating and will summarily dismiss girls with crowded resumes. I didn't invent either model but I have seen both in practice for many, many years.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

Nothing wrong with evaluating your options each season to see what is the best fit for both the team and the individual.

As long as you remember that one person's "evaluating options for the best fit" is another person's "Why didn't she fit in where she's been at?"

 

[SoCalASABlue]

It really isn't what I choose to see. It is what intensive investigations reveal to be true more often than not.

When a girl who comes on the radar has been on a different team every year, we make it a point to find out why. We ask questions of old coaches, we ask questions of parents on those older teams, we find out if the bulk of the other girls remained on the teams she left. We ask questions of players that were on teams with her. A picture always emerges and makes it easier to determine the motive for changing teams. Was it because that was the best thing to do? Was it because she is a team jumper?

Two hypotheticals to try and explain it more:

1. Angela is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She is a very good player who has been on our radar for at least a year, but this year she has been playing with a competitor so we have not recruited her or spoken with her parents. The year before, she was with another competitor but we hadn't really noticed her. The year before that, she was with another class A team that was good but not quite upper echelon. The year before that, she was with a lower-level team that struggled most of the year.

2. Lexie is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She has been with one of our competitors this year and we have played against her several times. She is a good player who has what it takes to make one of our teams. The year before, she was with another competitor. The year before that, a different competitor. The year before that she was with a second-tier class A club.

On the outside, if one were to look at this simplistically, these girls and their history would be quite similar. However, they are not.

Angela is trying out for a few different 16U Gold teams to find the best fit. Her current team is aging up but the girls will be going to 16U Gold so they are going separate ways. The year before, she left the team because she was the lone 2000 on a very good 1999 team. She left the team before that because she was one of a couple of 2000s on a 2001 team. She left the team before that because it was mediocre and she wanted to be on a better team, which was accomplished.

Lexie is a 2000 on a very good 2000 team. All the girls are going to 16U Gold so it is customary for them to be trying out a few different places. The year before, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together. We found out that she started the year as the #1 SS but was moved to 3B about half way through the year. The year before that, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together, as well. Our investigation revealed that she started the year as the #1 SS for the team but was moved to 2B for the important tourneys late in the season. The year before that, she was on a 2000 team and was the starting 2B for a month or two but was moved to LF for the rest of the season.

If we sere simple, we'd just assume both these girls are team jumpers or that they're both equal. But we investigate and we find out why. Needless to say, we'd be looking hard at Angela but Lexie would have a tough time making one of our teams.

Hope that helps. It really isn't what I choose to believe. It is what I find out to be true that tips the cap in one direction or the other. Other coaches I know won't even bother with investigating and will summarily dismiss girls with crowded resumes. I didn't invent either model but I have seen both in practice for many, many years.

WOW - government background checks aren't as detailed or thorough as your process...

 

[Rocketech1]

As long as you remember that one person's "evaluating options for the best fit" is another person's "Why didn't she fit in where she's been at?"

So an example from DDs current 12U TB team. Last year, was her first year of TB and attended one tryout weekend for one organization, was offered a spot and accepted (had some friends on the team and org had been around 20+ years). The team turned out to be less than ideal for a number of reasons (random young players added, combined players from 14u for part of the season because their team was "dark during HS, lack of real communication by the coaches, promised equipment (i.e. cleats) but never received them, some playing time issues (e.g. pitchers not batting regularly even in friendlies, scrimmages), qualified for TCS World Series (Utah) but coaches said the competition was too weak for us (but in the meantime, we can't even qualify for PGF!), I could go on...but needless to say, my DD will be trying out for a different 14U team in the fall not part of this organization. I wouldn't say I was a "nutso" parent or it is unreasonable to expect certain things from the team if I am paying $150/ month + fundraising to help support this team / org.

We learned our lesson the hard way, that you should tryout for multiple teams so that you get a better feel for the culture and expectations the coaches have for the team. If after one year, things don't work out as expected, you have every right to look elsewhere, no shame in that if done for the right reasons. At the end of the day, there is very little loyalty from the coaches, parents, and players after the 1 year commitment is full-filled.

 

[29dad]

Sorry to hear iml. Changing teams is very tough. DD has been on the same team that was put together 4 years ago and is the only original member remaining. But the landscape is changing here and there are lots of rumors about the club folding and even if that's not true it certainly appears to be the end of the line for this team. Looks like dd will have meaningful tryouts coming up for the first time in a long time. Lots of great memories - one final tournament with this group.

 

[#10]

It's simple, really. Recruiters like myself and college coaches see team jumping as a sign that a girl cannot or will not compete for her position or playing time. It is a sign of a girl moving around in order to get more of both far more often than it is a sign of a girl looking for a good fit. It is also a sign of nutso parents quite often, as well.

In the case of a team aging up and a girl being left behind (or a girl who has the bulk of her team staying down and she has to age up), it is much easier to overlook this. Same holds true if a coaching staff leaves or the girl was on a very weak team and wants to be on a better team. But moving laterally or near laterally is a huge red flag with us and we will avoid girls who are simply looking to switch teams (yet again) like the plague.

It really isn't what I choose to see. It is what intensive investigations reveal to be true more often than not.

When a girl who comes on the radar has been on a different team every year, we make it a point to find out why. We ask questions of old coaches, we ask questions of parents on those older teams, we find out if the bulk of the other girls remained on the teams she left. We ask questions of players that were on teams with her. A picture always emerges and makes it easier to determine the motive for changing teams. Was it because that was the best thing to do? Was it because she is a team jumper?

Two hypotheticals to try and explain it more:

1. Angela is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She is a very good player who has been on our radar for at least a year, but this year she has been playing with a competitor so we have not recruited her or spoken with her parents. The year before, she was with another competitor but we hadn't really noticed her. The year before that, she was with another class A team that was good but not quite upper echelon. The year before that, she was with a lower-level team that struggled most of the year.

2. Lexie is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She has been with one of our competitors this year and we have played against her several times. She is a good player who has what it takes to make one of our teams. The year before, she was with another competitor. The year before that, a different competitor. The year before that she was with a second-tier class A club.

On the outside, if one were to look at this simplistically, these girls and their history would be quite similar. However, they are not.

Angela is trying out for a few different 16U Gold teams to find the best fit. Her current team is aging up but the girls will be going to 16U Gold so they are going separate ways. The year before, she left the team because she was the lone 2000 on a very good 1999 team. She left the team before that because she was one of a couple of 2000s on a 2001 team. She left the team before that because it was mediocre and she wanted to be on a better team, which was accomplished.

Lexie is a 2000 on a very good 2000 team. All the girls are going to 16U Gold so it is customary for them to be trying out a few different places. The year before, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together. We found out that she started the year as the #1 SS but was moved to 3B about half way through the year. The year before that, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together, as well. Our investigation revealed that she started the year as the #1 SS for the team but was moved to 2B for the important tourneys late in the season. The year before that, she was on a 2000 team and was the starting 2B for a month or two but was moved to LF for the rest of the season.

If we sere simple, we'd just assume both these girls are team jumpers or that they're both equal. But we investigate and we find out why. Needless to say, we'd be looking hard at Angela but Lexie would have a tough time making one of our teams.

Hope that helps. It really isn't what I choose to believe. It is what I find out to be true that tips the cap in one direction or the other. Other coaches I know won't even bother with investigating and will summarily dismiss girls with crowded resumes. I didn't invent either model but I have seen both in practice for many, many years.

Intensive investigations, lmao! You ask questions of everybody under the sun except the player and her family? For every nutso parent, there's an equally nutso coach.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Just remember that what's normal and typical in SoCal, isn't elsewhere!

 

[guero_gordo]

It really isn't what I choose to see. It is what intensive investigations reveal to be true more often than not.

When a girl who comes on the radar has been on a different team every year, we make it a point to find out why. We ask questions of old coaches, we ask questions of parents on those older teams, we find out if the bulk of the other girls remained on the teams she left. We ask questions of players that were on teams with her. A picture always emerges and makes it easier to determine the motive for changing teams. Was it because that was the best thing to do? Was it because she is a team jumper?

Two hypotheticals to try and explain it more:

1. Angela is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She is a very good player who has been on our radar for at least a year, but this year she has been playing with a competitor so we have not recruited her or spoken with her parents. The year before, she was with another competitor but we hadn't really noticed her. The year before that, she was with another class A team that was good but not quite upper echelon. The year before that, she was with a lower-level team that struggled most of the year.

2. Lexie is a 2000 who shows up to our 16U Gold tryouts. She has been with one of our competitors this year and we have played against her several times. She is a good player who has what it takes to make one of our teams. The year before, she was with another competitor. The year before that, a different competitor. The year before that she was with a second-tier class A club.

On the outside, if one were to look at this simplistically, these girls and their history would be quite similar. However, they are not.

Angela is trying out for a few different 16U Gold teams to find the best fit. Her current team is aging up but the girls will be going to 16U Gold so they are going separate ways. The year before, she left the team because she was the lone 2000 on a very good 1999 team. She left the team before that because she was one of a couple of 2000s on a 2001 team. She left the team before that because it was mediocre and she wanted to be on a better team, which was accomplished.

Lexie is a 2000 on a very good 2000 team. All the girls are going to 16U Gold so it is customary for them to be trying out a few different places. The year before, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together. We found out that she started the year as the #1 SS but was moved to 3B about half way through the year. The year before that, she left a very good 2000 team that stayed together, as well. Our investigation revealed that she started the year as the #1 SS for the team but was moved to 2B for the important tourneys late in the season. The year before that, she was on a 2000 team and was the starting 2B for a month or two but was moved to LF for the rest of the season.

If we sere simple, we'd just assume both these girls are team jumpers or that they're both equal. But we investigate and we find out why. Needless to say, we'd be looking hard at Angela but Lexie would have a tough time making one of our teams.

Hope that helps. It really isn't what I choose to believe. It is what I find out to be true that tips the cap in one direction or the other. Other coaches I know won't even bother with investigating and will summarily dismiss girls with crowded resumes. I didn't invent either model but I have seen both in practice for many, many years.

So.... If you're going to ask around and not make assumptions, that sounds completely different from what I thought you were saying in that previous post. I saw it as being very comfortable with assumptions, guess I got it wrong.

 

[iMlearning]

I guess it's official...DD will be playing for her current HC and 2 ACs at the other organization. They have asked her to catch (Yay Greenmonsters!) She will be one of two catchers there. She will participate in 2 tryouts as will any of their current players. Her current HC is excited for DD to work with their HC because as said earlier, he is known for producing great hitters and his own daughter got 4A player of the year and will play D1 this year. DD finished with great offensive stats but has a lot of work to do to get to the next level They also seem to have better contacts for recruiting. I was able to get DD hooked up with a college pitcher and they practiced last night and will again this evening...I'm hoping they can continue to do it frequently. Thanks!