Still struggling to work through drive mechanics

[FastPitchCat]

Look closer...

Frame 2: her left foot is on the ground and her knee is bent. So, her arm is behind her body.
Frame 3: her knee is bent. Should be straight. (No front side resistance.)
Frame 4: She is more closed, and almost facing home plate.

frame 3 - shouldn't the stride knee be slightly bent? i.e. not totally straight?

 

[Ball Game]

Don't just "brush" the elbow .... feel the compression relative to the forearm as well.

Compression???

 

[Ball Game]

Did not mean to say arm. Compare your DD's shoulders/hips at release with the example you provided. From what I am seeing she closing a bit early. However, the front clip you provided looks different. In general she would do well to get more open which will be difficult until she controls the glove.

I see what you are saying here....her gloves going one way and her body needs to get open and go the other way. With that dramatic of a glove swim I agree she will most likely never get to 45 degrees upon release. She will always have shoulders facing the catcher as we see here and be slightly out of optimal sequence.

 

[Ball Game]

frame 3 - shouldn't the stride knee be slightly bent? i.e. not totally straight?

Yes,.............

 

[turnin2]

What a great post for people to give feedback. Well done.

Been a busy spring season. Baily pitched most games for her 8th grade team this spring as well as our TB team played in 6 consecutive tournaments. She didn't pitch a ton for me in TB, but still added another 30+ games on top of school.

I made a couple GIFs from pitching yesterday against a strong middle school team. She pitched well all things considered. Using the video, I estimated her throwing just above 50 yesterday.

She still tends to float a lot of balls high especially as the day wears on. I am still thinking her drive mechanic is leading to a situation in which her arm is ahead of her legs. I think her release is happening as she is finalizing her front foot plant as opposed to releasing against a solid front leg plant.

Here is a side by side against Monica. I think this shows how Monica is driving off of her drive leg where as DD is more "stepping through". I am very happy at the forward lean DD's been getting into. Just wish we could get more drive out of it. When I "holler" at her to drive, we just get a faster step through and arm circle.

Here is a cut out of her release. She has a lot of backward lean which puts her upper arm past vertical into IR. I do think this is a symptom of her drive mechanic though. Since she steps through and reaches out with her front leg, I think it naturally leads to this leaning posture. I really feel like if she were driving from her drive leg behind her, she'd be more vertical automatically.

I welcome anyone's feedback. I've been really focused on drive mechanics, but I could easily be missing the forest for the trees.

It's been a long season so far. Hard to get in extra workouts. DD has just been beat up. She did 3 weeks of RedCord and worked 2-step early spring until she got to a point that her Quads were sore constantly. We dialed it back, stepped up protein intake, and she's about fully recovered.

We could use some guidance moving forward.

 

[jryan15]

Look closer...

Frame 2: her left foot is on the ground and her knee is bent. So, her arm is behind her body.
Frame 3: her knee is bent. Should be straight. (No front side resistance.)
Frame 4: She is more closed, and almost facing home plate.

Darn DFP, I can't seem to get the site to email me when replies come back.

I see what you are saying sluggers. She is more closed in the last frame, and I do agreed with you on front side resistance. It has been something we've been working on. Her knee's go ?valgus? easily, and I know that she's a candidate for knee issues. We're on another round of leg strengthening exercises. We work front side resistance, but after a while she starts hinting of knee pain, and I back off. Maybe overly cautious, but the risk/reward doesn't seem worth it.

I believe that the issue with staying more open is that is may reduce her whip more than others. DD has a hyper mobility in her shoulders. She used to hold both ends of the bat and take it over her head around to her rear. I didn't let it last long, but it was something she thought was cool to do. For whatever reason, her arms ER's forever... It's been that way all along. I think it drastically affects her over hand throw.

It is a real issue that is not talked about often that I'm aware of. Honestly I don't know what to do about it outside of continued work outs to tighten the muscle groups. The good side is that the mobility apparently helps her spin to average 22 to 24 rps with a regular fastball.

When you get a chance, in good light, film your DD from behind. I have two students that have the extreme arm bend that your DD is showing in the clips above. It's a sign of someone muscling the ball versus pure whip. Look at Cat's arm, same with Finch, on the back side yes there's a slight bend but nothing like your DD or the two students I'm working with.

WillyT812,

I'll try and get better all around videos. We've worked a lot since last post. Without looking, I bet you are right DD does muscle the ball. I think it compensates for missing whip during release. Closing further allows for more ER which I think has been helping her at least get a little whip.

FWIW her release is all over the place, but almost never across the body nor does it ever do the little arm circle that Ueno does. I think this also may be an indicator for missing whip (ie muscling).

Maybe I can work with her a bit on keeping her arm straighter to see what happens.

 

[jryan15]

I see what you are saying here....her gloves going one way and her body needs to get open and go the other way. With that dramatic of a glove swim I agree she will most likely never get to 45 degrees upon release. She will always have shoulders facing the catcher as we see here and be slightly out of optimal sequence.

I see what you both are saying, but I still feel like glove swim is a symptom of another problem. Something else makes her glove swim. To work on the swim wouldn't fix the underlying issue (whatever it might be). I do appreciate the comment though. Her glove movement can be too big.

 

[WillyT812]

This off season our goal is to makes some improvements to our number pitcher: one is to explode better (not stepping off the rubber with the drive foot) and to plant better. Notice that your daughter is absorbing the plant energy with her body by collapsing and continued movement forward. My pitcher does the same. Find footage of any top-flight D1 pitcher and notice they firm up at plant through release. It's a brief moment of firmness but it's always there. This is where she'll transfer linear energy into rotational energy. It's often talked about on DFP that you need to catch the whip. Almost always they're talking about the arm, but there is another whip to catch in terms of the body, not just the arm. When done right you'll have one whip (the body) whipping another whip (the arm). This is kinematic sequencing Java talks about. When someone is consistently hitting, say 55mph, and then on occasion they'll pop out a 60mph pitch and they don't really know why...this is why. They've timed or sequenced one whip whipping another perfectly. The top pitchers have this down to a science.

Think gymnastics, stick that plant. Then capture this drive/linear energy and transfer it into rotational energy by firming up the front side. The rotating hips and shoulders will then fling their energy into the arm whip coming down from 11:00. That is how you catch a double whip. When done right the ball will literally explode out of her hand and you'll both go....CRAP, what the heck was that.

 

[FastPitchCat]

This off season our goal is to makes some improvements to our number pitcher: one is to explode better (not stepping off the rubber with the drive foot) and to plant better. Notice that your daughter is absorbing the plant energy with her body by collapsing and continued movement forward. My pitcher does the same. Find footage of any top-flight D1 pitcher and notice they firm up at plant through release. It's a brief moment of firmness but it's always there. This is where she'll transfer linear energy into rotational energy. It's often talked about on DFP that you need to catch the whip. Almost always they're talking about the arm, but there is another whip to catch in terms of the body, not just the arm. When done right you'll have one whip (the body) whipping another whip (the arm). This is kinematic sequencing Java talks about. When someone is consistently hitting, say 55mph, and then on occasion they'll pop out a 60mph pitch and they don't really know why...this is why. They've timed or sequenced one whip whipping another perfectly. The top pitchers have this down to a science.

Think gymnastics, stick that plant. Then capture this drive/linear energy and transfer it into rotational energy by firming up the front side. The rotating hips and shoulders will then fling their energy into the arm whip coming down from 11:00. That is how you catch a double whip. When done right the ball will literally explode out of her hand and you'll both go....CRAP, what the heck was that.

interesting. the other week, DD was practicing and she was throwing low to mid-50's (with revfire, i know it's relative speed). then BAM! one pitch came in at 62. i couldn't believe it, neither did DD. i wasn't sure if there were any conditions that changed during that pitch, but everything looked consistent. stride distance was the same... i caught the ball same spot, etc. maybe DD caught the other whip? something to pay attention to

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Don't just "brush" the elbow .... feel the compression relative to the forearm as well.

Compression???

Yes, compression. May be easiest to relate to when thinking of throwing a drop/fb. At approximately 7-o'clock the hand is still inside the ball ... from here the brush will have the hand rotating behind the ball ... this will occur in a very short distance and time frame ... compressed.