Still struggling to work through drive mechanics

[jryan15]

Fixing that 1B lean (as a lefty) would be my next battle to pick.

What does she look like head-on or straight from the rear?
It looks like her lower arm might be outward from her body at release?
In other words: good upper arm brush, but zero at the forearm.
Just a hunch...

Thanks corlay. You probably nailed it on the brush contact. Arm circle control has been very hard to work on with DD. Her joints are about as loose as they get. Her arm just goes all over the place. I honestly don't know how to help her control it. Many girls don't have that issue. Their arm will circle like it's in a track or like it wore a groove. Most couldn't get their arm in positions like DD if there was money on the line.

I tried getting a front clip, but it was pretty dark. I think there info to get out of it though.

Personally I think that 1st base lean is a result of her rearward tilt. I think as she rotates around her rear leg, that rear tilt becomes side tilt towards first base. I hope I'm describing that right, it looks like that when I watch the clip anyway. It's like her pelvis was already tilted back (leaning toward 2nd base) and then when it turns forward, it maintains the tilt and is now leaning toward 1st base.

In these pitches, she was doing little more two step, and she often starts taking a physical step forward (gym step?) instead of driving rearward with the drive leg. I think the step forward broke any chance of her driving properly and she reverted back to a big step as noted by knightsb DD.

 

[jryan15]

Decent drive but the arm / body appears to be out of sync.

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

Many have said the goal is to be off of the rubber by 3 o'clock. I've felt like DD needs to delay her back swing slightly more to get to this position. I don't know that she's going to find the explosiveness to accomplish with her legs just yet. Is this what you are referring to?

I worked up this comparison from Sluggers' Basic arm-body synchronization thread, but I don't see anything glaringly obvious.

 

[riseball]

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

Many have said the goal is to be off of the rubber by 3 o'clock. I've felt like DD needs to delay her back swing slightly more to get to this position. I don't know that she's going to find the explosiveness to accomplish with her legs just yet. Is this what you are referring to?

I worked up this comparison from Sluggers' Basic arm-body synchronization thread, but I don't see anything glaringly obvious.

Did not mean to say arm. Compare your DD's shoulders/hips at release with the example you provided. From what I am seeing she closing a bit early. However, the front clip you provided looks different. In general she would do well to get more open which will be difficult until she controls the glove.

 

[jryan15]

She is putting some load on her back foot and rearranging her foot, which makes it hard to get timing forward, and can reinforce a lean when extra angle is put on the foot. It should be set once, all load.

Agree. That foot rearrangement is the bane of my existence

Strangely her foot is pointed back but then her hip is in the way;most kids can't do that; somehow that all seems to be coming forward too hard.

DD tends to get in all kinds of positions that most kids can't... Tremendous bendy-ness has made even the most simple things to learn incredible difficult. Can you elaborate on what you mean here? I'm not sure what you mean about her foot pointed back with hip in the way.

Also when you say it is all coming forward too hard, are you talking about her rear leg during the 9 o'clock to 6 o'clock period? If so, I was attributing it to a front leg collapse that did very little to stop her forward momentum. I feel like the extra push that she is getting from now using her drive leg to actually drive is putting much more force than she is used to into her plant. I felt like if her plant was better, alot of the forward momentum would be slowed and hopefully translate into more going into ball speed. Thoughts on this?

She also looks like she is throwing a curveball. Spent today looking at our curveballer's pics and she has the same circle, which gives her good spin. But not sure I would have that on a non-curveball pitch.

Not sure what you mean here. That is her typical arm circle that produces a 12-6 spin axis. She does have a high rev rate. Average is around 24 rps. I'm not sure how to have her do this different.

 

[corlay]

DD tends to get in all kinds of positions that most kids can't... Tremendous bendy-ness has made even the most simple things to learn incredible difficult.

She does have a high rev rate. Average is around 24 rps.

Someone I hold in high-regard, has suggested an hypothesis that pitchers with extreme "joint laxity" typically achieve higher than average spin-rates.
Un-proven at this point, but an interesting theory...

My 11U DD is also very "bendy", especially in her fingers and elbow joints.
Gets up to 22-23rps when throwing a palm-up curve. (axis/break isn't always the best. we are working on that. but the spin-rate is encouraging!)

 

[jryan15]

Did not mean to say arm. Compare your DD's shoulders/hips at release with the example you provided. From what I am seeing she closing a bit early. However, the front clip you provided looks different. In general she would do well to get more open which will be difficult until she controls the glove. .

I understand.

I actually worked towards keeping her more closed for this reason: When pitchers adduct their upper arm, the fast motion creates a lag position with the ball (it sucks behind them). This lag position is similar to the huge ER MLB pitchers and throwers get into as their lower body turns them from sideways to belly button forward. This lag translates into whip prior to release. The problem that I have with DD is that she has much more ER in her shoulder before things tighten up, stretch, and lag. From an open stance, she can fully ER to a point the ball is behind her elbow. Because of this, when DD adducts there is no stretch created when the ball sucks behind her. With no stretch, there is no whip. It creates a situation in which she has to push her arm to IR instead of the stretch (whip) kick starting the process.

For this reason, we are working to be more closed. When she is more closed, adduction and forward momentum have more room to create stretch during ER.


Going back the the overhand throwing thread: Imagine getting into the position that Harper gets into below with out max'ing out your ER. DD can get there without being fully loaded. Her overhand throws suffer greatly too. She's been putting on some muscle and tightening up a bit though.




All that said, after she wraps up 8th grade season (games today and tomorrow), depending on how things go, we might experiment with this again to see what impact it has.

Thanks.

 

[Ball Game]

I understand.

I actually worked towards keeping her more closed for this reason: When pitchers adduct their upper arm, the fast motion creates a lag position with the ball (it sucks behind them). This lag position is similar to the huge ER MLB pitchers and throwers get into as their lower body turns them from sideways to belly button forward. This lag translates into whip prior to release. The problem that I have with DD is that she has much more ER in her shoulder before things tighten up, stretch, and lag. From an open stance, she can fully ER to a point the ball is behind her elbow. Because of this, when DD adducts there is no stretch created when the ball sucks behind her. With no stretch, there is no whip. It creates a situation in which she has to push her arm to IR instead of the stretch (whip) kick starting the process.

For this reason, we are working to be more closed. When she is more closed, adduction and forward momentum have more room to create stretch during ER.


Going back the the overhand throwing thread: Imagine getting into the position that Harper gets into below with out max'ing out your ER. DD can get there without being fully loaded. Her overhand throws suffer greatly too. She's been putting on some muscle and tightening up a bit though.

View attachment 8175


All that said, after she wraps up 8th grade season (games today and tomorrow), depending on how things go, we might experiment with this again to see what impact it has.

Thanks.

Is closed when hips open up? This is backwards

 

[sluggers]

but I don't see anything glaringly obvious.

Look closer...

Frame 2: her left foot is on the ground and her knee is bent. So, her arm is behind her body.
Frame 3: her knee is bent. Should be straight. (No front side resistance.)
Frame 4: She is more closed, and almost facing home plate.

 

[WillyT812]

When you get a chance, in good light, film your DD from behind. I have two students that have the extreme arm bend that your DD is showing in the clips above. It's a sign of someone muscling the ball versus pure whip. Look at Cat's arm, same with Finch, on the back side yes there's a slight bend but nothing like your DD or the two students I'm working with.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Don't just "brush" the elbow .... feel the compression relative to the forearm as well.