Spin

[DrRiello]

With the rise, you can be in great position but the thumb can get in the way and you won't get the correct spin axis. One thing to keep in mind.

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Good thing she uses fatty grip and thumb is never an issue.


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[Ken B]

Hey Ken, apologies if this was already asked or mentioned, but your pictures of each pitch seem to show everything as a 2 seamer. I am a big fan of throwing everything as a 2 seamer, but curious if that was purposeful or just what pictures you were able to procure for the document? Thanks in advance.

In my rush to put it together, the pic of the two seam orientation was the best I could find at the time. Hope to update the whole thing sometime this winter.

 

[fanboi22]

In my rush to put it together, the pic of the two seam orientation was the best I could find at the time. Hope to update the whole thing sometime this winter.

Thanks Ken. I know the Magnus effect and everything, but my DD's pitches seem to move better with the 2 seam. Maybe it's because she doesn't get perfect spin and ends up more 4 seam, but curious your thoughts.

Have you tried a 2 seam true drop vs 4 seam? curious your results.

 

[Ken B]

Thanks Ken. I know the Magnus effect and everything, but my DD's pitches seem to move better with the 2 seam. Maybe it's because she doesn't get perfect spin and ends up more 4 seam, but curious your thoughts.

Have you tried a 2 seam true drop vs 4 seam? curious your results.

I suggest a 2 seam grip for smaller hands for a drop and as an option for the rise. Otherwise, seam orientation doesn’t affect either of these pitches, except that a two seam will sometimes break horizontally. @Ken Krause could describe this phenomenon much better than I could.

 

[Ken B]

Dissecting a Mystery Pitch

baseball.physics.illinois.edu

 

[ArmWhip]

The break in that Garcia pitch is attributed to a seam shifted wake. Dr Nathan has updated his thoughts on this. The latest theory says that the seam that causes the break is on the right side of the ball and not visible from that camera angle. 'Tipped' bullet spin allows an axis that presents a near constant seam right on the edge of the ball where the wake separates. Having the right grip is necessary to locate enough of the seam to rotate through that spot. To create a pitch like this the pitcher has to reliably produce the proper spin axis. Then rotate the grip until you get the right seam orientation.

 

[Ken Krause]

I suggest a 2 seam grip for smaller hands for a drop and as an option for the rise. Otherwise, seam orientation doesn’t affect either of these pitches, except that a two seam will sometimes break horizontally. @Ken Krause could describe this phenomenon much better than I could.

Uh-oh, I better be on my game after Ken's recommendation!

There is research being done right now on what's called a seam-shifted wake (SSW), especially on so-called bullet spins. It's all fairly theoretical right now, although the research is more on the practical side. I first learned about it in this post from ArmWhip to give credit where it's due: https://www.discussfastpitch.com/threads/seam-shifted-wakes.39749/

The idea, as I understand it, is that the position of the seams causes the air rushing over, under and around the ball to be shed differently, at different times. That creates uneven pressure on the ball which causes movement. It's the same basic idea as the Magnus affect, but it occurs differently.

So by holding the ball a certain way, in this case with a two seam grip, it sets up the ball to move through the air in a way that generates the seams-shifted wake.

As I mentioned, even the physics guys who are investigating it are still early in their research. But it does explain, if true, why a ball that theoretically shouldn't be moving (because it's not spinning "properly") does so anyway.