In my personal experience I have not heard of or seen that to be a preconceived thought. It may happen against certain teams or against certain hitters but things like speed, location, movement are more dependent on the weakness of the particular hitter. Every hitter regardless of how good they are has a speed, location, variation of speed, or movement that gives them difficulty. The key is figuring this out......earlier rather than later.
Speed Variation
- Thread starter Rick Pauly
- Start date
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My 12 yo DDs primay pitch is her drop ball. Other than that she can throw a CU (still working on getting consistent with that one). Would you say it is better for her to develop an off speed drop ball or develop another pitch (after we work out the kinks in the CU). Thanks!
- Jan 25, 2011
- 2,278
- 38
I have to ask, I know it is baseball, but have any of you heard of effective velocity by Perry Husband?
In general I think the best sequence of pitch development would be to get your drop, change, and then another higher speed pitch (rise, curve, screw) before working on an offspeed. At the younger ages it seems to work best to learn the mechanics of a pitch (thrown at its higher speed) before learning how to throw it at an offspeed. Probably better to get the top end speed up so there is some room for filling in the gaps with offspeed.
- Jan 20, 2011
- 92
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Rick, that's a gem of a quote. And maybe a topic that has been real gap on this board.
At the risk of hijacking this thread, which I have no intention, would you mind expanding a little bit of this?
One of the areas I find lacking in young pitchers is not just the "what" (mechanics, spin, actual speed development, etc) but also the "why and when "
When introducing a new pitch or studying movement, I ask a student to View Great examples of the pitch in application (got to love the Internet) or transcribe sequences of the pitch in application. My goal is to engage the brain of the pitcher and get them to start thinking about how what we're doing truly applies to their repertoire.
The job is only halfway done if you can teach a girl to throw a drop as an off speed but she doesn't know why or when she should do it. And with anything, if they have more "ownership" in it, The process is smoother for all involved.
"So how would you use this pitch? "In most cases, there is a coach or dad eagerly hoping that they are going to be called upon to answer but they aren't the one standing in the circle. And for a limited time, there will always be a coach eager to call things in from the sideline but as you offhandedly pointed out those are the hallmarks of a thrower versus a pitcher.
So my question is to you, how do You teach the Why and When in conjunction with the " what"? Via sequencing? Hypothetical situations looking for batter tendencies? Etc.
Always appreciate your insight,
Sutherlandfinch
PS look for my book Dirty and Mean Softball Pitching Wizardry available soon on Amazon.com
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
I know this question is directed towards Rick P, but I'm gonna toss my 2 cents in...
A few years back, I had a parent ask if I'd work with his DD. He tells me that the TB team he had her playing for had a coach that 'messed her up'. He went on telling me that before she played ball for them, she had good control of three pitches: fastball, change-up, and a curve. Btw, she was 10...
So, I agree to get together with them and ask her to throw the fastball. Decent speed... right down the middle, but a corkscrew. "Throw the change-up". She rolls her eyes and steps to the plate. A horrific rainbow. "And the curve..." It's her fastball WAY outside... The dad gives her a high-five and says, "Holy crap, that's the best she has thrown in a long time." I asked her what she thought... and she says: "I did ok, but I don't like the change-up. Slow pitches are too easy to hit."
Point being... she had a 1/2 of a pitch, not 3... and if that 1/2 of a pitch wasn't a corkscrew... I'm not sure I would've continued working with them. She was told that a change-up was a slow pitch. She was told that a curve was an outside pitch. When I asked her when she would throw any of three she 'possessed', she said: "When my dad tells me to."
I won't go into the gory details of how he taught her these pitches... I had to suffer through it... and none of you should. Point being, her dad benefited as much from the lessons... and after 2 years of working on her 'scrop' and a horseshoe change-up... she finally learned a crop, not a curve... AND when she did... she learned it VERY fast... because I told her the why and when before I told her the "what" and "how" - and this motivated the crap out of her. To this day, her favorite pitch is a change-up... because: "I like making them look funny when they really want to hit it" and "I get all the good hitters out a lot." The last two are direct quotes, and they are much better answers... Btw, she has also learned an off-speed scrop...
When learning movement and off-speed pitches, there should already be a foundation of 'why' in place - which is the main reason I wait to work with pitchers until they approach the 'cognitive' milestones that accompany being 10+. The 'when' is, like Rick alluded to, a pregame or in-game process.... and it takes some work (not just from the pitcher). That said, fearing or not-understanding your opponents strengths - are horrible reasons for someone else to call their pitches... but sadly, some of the most common...
To a certain point, so is competition. IMO, it should be a practice that all pitchers that play 14U or earlier - should all call their own pitches... with some input from the catcher (maybe even have tendencies signaled from back-up pitchers)... and then they 'review' these decisions with coaches and the other pitchers/catchers between innings. If the situation really warrants a coaches direct input... they could always call a conference... but at 14U or less... the wrong call is not going to impact a D1 scholarship... but not allowing them to try it and develop the confidence IN GAME from making their own decisions... well... that might...
Sorry for the ramblings...
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
"Where does he get those wonderful..." emoticons...?
