Good reply, SBFAMILY. I was starting to cringe.
slap hitters speed?
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Now I'm conflicted. lol First, what do the the comparison clips in Right View show? After all, Slaught is ALL ABOUT doing what elite hitters do. Second I surely don't blame you for not wanting to get into a debate. Especially with Tom. I'm sure I've annoyed people at times but I have been known to change my mind when faced with a good argument over the last ten years. But...I have to agree with Tom on this one point (and yes that's a little painful). I'd further suggest teaching what elite hitters actually do rather than what they say do. Bagwell excepted.
Having said all that, given that momentum is lost the instant the mass stops moving, I still suspect you are actually teaching no stride hitting with a heel drop shift, which I'm fine with. And I very much understand why this would be an effective teaching protocol for beginners. The stride adds complexity that often crashes the system with young hitters. Unless the stride is working for them, taking it away, at least for awhile, is an excellent proven method for working on the elimination of inefficiencies. But elite hitters who stride do not, IME, have toe touch before release. I'd call what you describe, a pre-stride. Again, not a problem. Just a separate event in terms of momentum and or rotation.
Now if your teaching cue results in a standard stride/forward by turning, OK fine. It's all a bit of a guess unless I saw you teach for awhile.
The MAJOR disagreement I have is the Slaught/Candrea idea that the hips should be square at toe touch.
This is most similar in MLB to the lau/lau jr/brett method where the recommendation is to stride keeping the front foot closed at toe touch.
The only way to do this and remain in the MLB pattern is to have coil/separation created almost entorely by loading the hands back further. This creates a longer off the plate swing which worked fine for Brett, BUT this is not very satisfactory for fastpitch where the chevy logo strike zone is huige from east to west and hitters are smaller than MLB.
Furthermore, if you get to toe touch early,then you will sit around and lose load.
So what is the rationale/thinking behing Bustos doing something different from what she teaches ?
What is the advantage/purpose of teaching square hips at toe touch ?
Why teach something different from what Bustos finds effective (toe touch after release) ?
Why not discuss it ?
This is most similar in MLB to the lau/lau jr/brett method where the recommendation is to stride keeping the front foot closed at toe touch.
The only way to do this and remain in the MLB pattern is to have coil/separation created almost entorely by loading the hands back further. This creates a longer off the plate swing which worked fine for Brett, BUT this is not very satisfactory for fastpitch where the chevy logo strike zone is huige from east to west and hitters are smaller than MLB.
Furthermore, if you get to toe touch early,then you will sit around and lose load.
So what is the rationale/thinking behing Bustos doing something different from what she teaches ?
What is the advantage/purpose of teaching square hips at toe touch ?
Why teach something different from what Bustos finds effective (toe touch after release) ?
Why not discuss it ?
- Mar 11, 2009
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ttt
ASU plays UCLA today on FSNAZ I will watch and see if they do the toe touch slap...
ASU plays UCLA today on FSNAZ I will watch and see if they do the toe touch slap...
interesting discussion here, including description of how opening the hips early is good for quickening the swing as in the Barry Bonds, see:
Baseball Debate - Rotation.....
Baseball Debate - Rotation.....
You guys surely argue about rotational linear hitting dynamics or whatever. Please, no name calling.
- Mar 11, 2009
- 431
- 0
So maybe somebody should start a thread about rotational hitting!
Do you remember a few posts back when I said I understood SBFamily's lack of interest is one of your debates? Been there done that.
As we stride to toe touch we want them to think toe to toe and keep the foot close to the ground and land on the edge of the foot, not flat footed so there is instability in the hip and it will move linear. Landing flat footed usually will cause the front side to open and rotation to start too soon. We want them to load on the pitchers up swing of the ball hand and be at toe touch when the pitcher is in the K position and we term this as dancing with the pitcher.
We want them to separate their hands rearward slightly keeping the hands at least shoulder level high however we are not teaching hands above the head or the back elbow being higher than the shoulder and we want that separation to happen as we stride and the toe touch is felt. How far we stride is up to the hitters feel as to weight transfer being 50 50 at toe touch. Not enough forward movement less power, too much and you could wind up being over your front leg as the head and chest are not back and somewhat centered and everything is over your front leg.
This action is initiated when the hitter recognizes spin, speed and release and as the elbow begins to lower, simultaneously the heel begins to plant based on your instincts of speed. If the pitch is slower your heel plant will be adjusted and if faster the heel plant will happen much faster as the linear phase of the hips moving forward will begin rotation.
the more weight that is shifted into the inside of the back leg at toe touch allowing the hips to continue forward the more power we generate as connection begins.
This is also why from the attack mode if you have to make any additional moves; separating the hands rearward more, turning the shoulders in more, shifting the hips back more, raising the hands lowering the hands or re planting to toe touch you probably were not in an efficient position at toe touch to begin with.
As connection begins to happen the lowering of the elbow and the hands passing in front of the back shoulder, if the hand and elbow are stacked pretty much directly over the top of each other or what we term staying strong on the back side you will absolutely generate more rotation in the hips. Have the hitter get into their stance and try to push their back hand forward without the elbow coming down first and then repeat as the elbow goes into the slot and you should feel the hip torque and see it the hip try to move. When the hands are getting ahead of the elbow we usually see the hard grounder line drive and when the elbow stays with the hand we usually see the hands stay above the plane of the pitch especially if you made a good first move with the lead arm elbow and the hitter is thinking pulling the bat and whipping it.
I'm sure I left something out, but this is what we teach.
We want them to separate their hands rearward slightly keeping the hands at least shoulder level high however we are not teaching hands above the head or the back elbow being higher than the shoulder and we want that separation to happen as we stride and the toe touch is felt. How far we stride is up to the hitters feel as to weight transfer being 50 50 at toe touch. Not enough forward movement less power, too much and you could wind up being over your front leg as the head and chest are not back and somewhat centered and everything is over your front leg.
This action is initiated when the hitter recognizes spin, speed and release and as the elbow begins to lower, simultaneously the heel begins to plant based on your instincts of speed. If the pitch is slower your heel plant will be adjusted and if faster the heel plant will happen much faster as the linear phase of the hips moving forward will begin rotation.
the more weight that is shifted into the inside of the back leg at toe touch allowing the hips to continue forward the more power we generate as connection begins.
This is also why from the attack mode if you have to make any additional moves; separating the hands rearward more, turning the shoulders in more, shifting the hips back more, raising the hands lowering the hands or re planting to toe touch you probably were not in an efficient position at toe touch to begin with.
As connection begins to happen the lowering of the elbow and the hands passing in front of the back shoulder, if the hand and elbow are stacked pretty much directly over the top of each other or what we term staying strong on the back side you will absolutely generate more rotation in the hips. Have the hitter get into their stance and try to push their back hand forward without the elbow coming down first and then repeat as the elbow goes into the slot and you should feel the hip torque and see it the hip try to move. When the hands are getting ahead of the elbow we usually see the hard grounder line drive and when the elbow stays with the hand we usually see the hands stay above the plane of the pitch especially if you made a good first move with the lead arm elbow and the hitter is thinking pulling the bat and whipping it.
I'm sure I left something out, but this is what we teach.
