Should umpires at Nationals be best of the best who're available?

[The Maj]

One thing I have not seen mentioned here is many of the umpires call for different governing bodies throughout the year and I have seen umps mix up rules from one governing body to another from time to time. Many of the umps call "rec" ball during the week and tournaments on the weekend - in some cases, there is an entire world of difference between "rec / league" rules and a tournament's governing organization rules. Also, some rec leagues makeup their own rules for a season and that adds even more to the confusion. Granted, at a national event, one would expect umpires to be focused and very familiar with the governing organization's rules but things do get jumbled up some times.

As to the question of intent -
SECTION 6 (Page 113 NSA Rulebook)
The batter shall not hit a fair ball a second time with the bat in fair territory.
EFFECT:The ball is dead, the batter is out and baserunners may not advance.
EXCEPTION: If the batter is standing in the batter’s box and contact is made
while the bat is in the batter’s hands, it is a foul ball even if the ball is hit a
second time over fair territory.
NOTE: If the batter drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair
territory and, in the umpire's judgment, there was no intention to interfere with
the course of the ball, the batter is not
out and the ball is alive and in play.

However, in this instance, the PU was absolutely wrong in utilizing his/her judgement in order to determine what "would have" happened and awarding the defense the out regardless of which rules apply.

 

[Momo'sDad]

This was ASA.

It was actually the offensive coach who shouted "it wasn't intentional" - my mistake for the misplaced (missing) modifier. I would hope that word didn't influence the umpires' view of the play. Once they ruled that the batter had committed no violation, then the real debate was over how to resolve the dead ball call.

 

[MTR]

This was ASA.

It was actually the offensive coach who shouted "it wasn't intentional" - my mistake for the misplaced (missing) modifier. I would hope that word didn't influence the umpires' view of the play. Once they ruled that the batter had committed no violation, then the real debate was over how to resolve the dead ball call.

In ASA, this is a dead ball, INT, the BR is out and all runners return to the last base occupied at the time of the INT

8.2.F.5 would work (discarding a bat in a manner that prevents the defense from making a play on the ball) and 7.6.M and RS#24 also address this situation.

I need to clarify an earlier statement concerning intent. Intent does not matter when it is an act of INT where the bat hits the ball. However, it is taken into consideration when the ball rolls against a bat lying on the field if the umpire judges that the player placed the bat with the intention of putting in in the path of the ball to interfere with the play.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

I cannot understand why there would be a discussion unless one of the umpires had no clue or is the type to make up their own rules based on what "they" considered fair...At NO point is intent required and shame on the umpires for not knowing the rule, it isn't that difficult to understand...If confident and qualified to be there, never should have needed to consult the crew. The UIC should have only needed to ask one question, did the bat hit the ball? Any further discussion is not a good sign for that crew or UIC.

You're kidding, right? I'm shocked they even had a UIC on site. Been to plenty of tournaments as a coach and worked plenty as an umpire where the UIC was nowhere to be found.

And I've seen (and worked with) plenty of "confident" umpires...but passing an annual exam (which is done as a group exercise in 99% of umpiring associations), going to a few clinics taught by the people that tell you to do one thing but (when you watch them umpire) do things opposite in the name of "game management", and becoming best buds with the assigner to get the prime games does not make you qualified.

 

[The Maj]

This was ASA.

It was actually the offensive coach who shouted "it wasn't intentional" - my mistake for the misplaced (missing) modifier. I would hope that word didn't influence the umpires' view of the play. Once they ruled that the batter had committed no violation, then the real debate was over how to resolve the dead ball call.

Well, once the PU declared dead ball, the only option that was available was batter is out and all BRs return to the last bag occupied in my opinion. Sometimes, I think umpires lose a lot of credibility making something up on the fly in order to satisfy the situation at hand - i.e. "in my judgement the batter would have gotten out anyway, therefore the batter is out".

 

[MTR]

You're kidding, right? I'm shocked they even had a UIC on site. Been to plenty of tournaments as a coach and worked plenty as an umpire where the UIC was nowhere to be found.

And I've seen (and worked with) plenty of "confident" umpires...but passing an annual exam (which is done as a group exercise in 99% of umpiring associations), going to a few clinics taught by the people that tell you to do one thing but (when you watch them umpire) do things opposite in the name of "game management", and becoming best buds with the assigner to get the prime games does not make you qualified.

Well, I guess that depends on where you are and with whom you deal. I've never been involved in any manner with championship play that did not have a UIC readily accessible. Nor have I ever used umpires (where I had a choice) who were not qualified to work championship play. And "game management" is not an excuse for personal preferences and I've never seen a UIC or competent instructor try to sell it as a remedy.

But I'm not where you are so it must be obviously different.