Science people vs what the eye sees, simpletons

[Greenmonsters]

Looks like a job for Mythbusters. Who wants to start a petition?

 

[JDBerry]

Looks like a job for Mythbusters. Who wants to start a petition?

True. they have all of the high speed cameras and such. Then we can rip them apart afterwards for what they did wrong or didn't do and make them do it over.

 

[JDBerry]

JD, didn't intend it to be condensending at all.

10/4 (typing more since it forces me to)

 

[starsnuffer]

I love it. Science versus in-practice. I am a science geek so I love explaining what is happening in those terms. To me it all makes sense. However I think the biggest thing that is always missed is...

The science of sight. For some reason many on here view sight as an absolute. When every scientist knows it is the brains interpretation of what is happening. It is for this very reason that we have magic shows, illusionist and so on. Our eyes only have a partial image of what is happening, the brain makes up the rest.

The goal is simply to fool the brain for that 1/10 of a second until it is too late. To say one pitch does not work or another does not rise is a fallacy. The truth is the result as related to the experience of the batter.

Each pitcher ends up with some uniqueness in relation to the illusion of their pitches. And each batter trains their mind to discard false input and correctly interpret what is happening.

If an observer sitting at 90 degrees to the plane of pitch observers that the pitch did NOT rise, so what. If the batter "thinks" it did, then game over. Pitcher wins.

To say a screw ball for a 13u pitcher does not work is also a fallacy. If the 13u batters brain cannot process what is actually happening, then again game over, pitcher wins. Does not even matter how much it moved.

TO me pitching is the sport version of magic tricks. But I never quit figured out why so much interest on what is happening with a pitch. When the real question is what the brain thinks it is seeing, in relation to what age, helps girls correctly interpret it correctly.

This is exactly it.

Once a pitcher is about 15, they need to start learning to be magicians, at least the good ones. Slight of hand and redirection are the tools of the trade. This isn't to say that mechanics are neglected, but by this point the pitcher needs to be working on the "art" aspect of pitching.

This doesn't change the laws of physics, however, just ones ability to fool the minds of batters (and old men apparently).

-W

 

[Sweet Lou]

that in depth study was wrong. it was wrong because the force imparted on a ball isn't constant through it's travel. It's delayed. A curve doesn't start curving once it leaves the hand... the break occurs late.

This is incorrect. The force acts on the ball from the moment of release. Actually as the ball loses spin due to friction the break as an instantaeous rate of change decreases. The break is "bigger" at the end because you are adding to the prior break that has already occured during the path of the balls flight.

So. Back to what I said. A ball thrown on an incline whose trajectory flattens near the plate when the break occurs, creates the little "hop"

No it doesn't.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Looks like a job for Mythbusters. Who wants to start a petition?

Didn't someone already post the one they did on baseball?

 

[Sweet Lou]

where?

and spin isn't the only factor in the equation

You are correct. Let me know when a human can throw a softball 200 mph and I'll agree a "true" rise ball is then possible.

 

[JDBerry]

This is incorrect.

no it's not

edit: here, give this a thought before I run out and can't play any more. Do you really think that the low pressure area develops along the ball the instant the ball leaves the hand? That defies physics. it takes several rotations for the seams to gather the air and develop the offsetting high and low pressures, which are the forces that makes the ball move

now, this force it exerts starts small. It's not one big low pressure area, it starts at zero and builds until it reaches it's maximum. That is why the ball "breaks".

It takes time for the ball to travel forward and make revolutions for the magnus effect to take effect. hence, the late break

 

[JDBerry]

No it doesn't.

yes it does

 

[JDBerry]

You are correct. Let me know when a human can throw a softball 200 mph and I'll agree a "true" rise ball is then possible.

now we have logical fallacy as argumentum.

edit: why do you suppose they put larger seams on softballs?