School coach doesn't understand the game

[Quasimodo]

Axioms of the game:
* Don't make your first out at 3B or Home
* Don't make your 3rd out at 3B, the runner is already in scoring position

Those are solid rules to live by but not laid in concrete as in never, ever, like bunting with 2 outs. Generally not such a great idea, but what about a slapper or a 3B playing on the outfield grass?

 

[_MIA_]

Generally not such a great idea, but what about a slapper or a 3B playing on the outfield grass?

Bunting for a basehit is not what that "general rule" is about, at least the way I have understood it for 35+ years.

 

[Quasimodo]

Bunting for a basehit is not what that "general rule" is about, at least the way I have understood it for 35+ years.

I have no argument about that. But if she does, it might be because she is over-whelmed, is fast with good bunting skills, the defense is sleeping and playing unusually deep. If it was Debbie Doom pitching and the 2015 version of Valerie Arioto playing 3B I might bunt every AB.

There was a coach at Utah State that only bunted with two outs. Never a sac bunt. She lasted one season. She was a pitcher from Iowa and meaner than hell. I am sure that didn't help. But I did not list bunting with 2 outs as an Axiom of the Game.

I just read my post and it says the opposite of intended. It means none of them are are set in concrete, like bunting with 2 outs. It read very poorly and I corrected it. But I did qualify the statement in the next sentence, as in what about a slapper for example?

 

[_MIA_]

I just read my post and it says the opposite of intended. It means none of them are are set in concrete, like bunting with 2 outs. It read very poorly.

I got your point and in general agree with it. My point was that the whole "don't bunt with two outs" thing is only for sacrifice bunting (for obvious reasons..) and not bunting for a base hit. I have never heard anybody say you don't bunt for a base hit with 2 outs...I guess you have and if it was me I would have asked what is the logic behind that. Most of the "general rules" have a clear logical explanation (don't make the 1st or 3rd outs at 3rd, don't steal down by a lot of runs, etc) which recently have been backed up by sabermetric arguments for the most part.

 

[Quasimodo]

I got your point and in general agree with it. My point was that the whole "don't bunt with two outs" thing is only for sacrifice bunting (for obvious reasons..) and not bunting for a base hit. I have never heard anybody say you don't bunt for a base hit with 2 outs...I guess you have and if it was me I would have asked what is the logic behind that. Most of the "general rules" have a clear logical explanation (don't make the 1st or 3rd outs at 3rd, don't steal down by a lot of runs, etc) which recently have been backed up by sabermetric arguments for the most part.

First off, I did not list bunting with two outs as an axiom of the game, and for a reason. I have in some circumstances done it. I did it once with a slapper and the bases loaded. sabermetrics, odds, that is the determinate factor. Given your player or players, the defense and the pitcher, what are the odds of them being safe? If the odds are better that they could be safe, I say could be, at a higher rate than hitting away, then I do not disagree. And there are several considered factors. If you read carefully, I was arguing against rules written in stone. Not so much the ones mentioned above, I largely agree with those. Our Philippines head field coach (I am only a skills trainer, not a game coach. Not allowed here!) gets girls thrown out at 3B and home all the time in unadvisable situations regardless of inning or score. He doesn't get it! He actually is one of the least knowledgeable coaches I have worked with. If for example you have a dominant pitcher, say Yukiko Ueno, and your batter is 0-3 with 3 K's and saw 9 pitches, why couldn't she bunt?

 

[_MIA_]

If for example you have a dominant pitcher, say Yukiko Ueno, and your batter is 0-3 with 3 K's and saw 9 pitches, why couldn't she bunt?

I am not sure if you think I am disagreeing with you but if you are talking about bunting for a basehit then if she is a decent bunter with decent speed then I say go for it..

 

[Quasimodo]

I am not sure if you think I am disagreeing with you but if you are talking about bunting for a basehit then if she is a decent bunter with decent speed then I say go for it..

I do not disagree at all if you perceive her chances as good. Oh, and a footnote; that USU coach did sacrifice all the time with two outs. Even the average fans were looking at each other in dismay. I guess she thought that it would be a base-hit, but her players were not trained that well in any bunt except to square up. I amended my post above, the first sentence was added.

 

[radness]

I have no argument about that. But if she does, it might be because she is over-whelmed, is fast with good bunting skills, the defense is sleeping and playing unusually deep. If it was Debbie Doom pitching and the 2015 version of Valerie Arioto playing 3B I might bunt every AB.

There was a coach at Utah State that only bunted with two outs. Never a sac bunt. She lasted one season. She was a pitcher from Iowa and meaner than hell. I am sure that didn't help. But I did not list bunting with 2 outs as an Axiom of the Game.

I just read my post and it says the opposite of intended. It means none of them are are set in concrete, like bunting with 2 outs. It read very poorly and I corrected it. But I did qualify the statement in the next sentence, as in what about a slapper for example?

As for any team trying to hit off of Debbie Doom,
Expect one or maybe two base hits for your team that game...then again...
if she doesnt pitch a no hitter against you,
it just may be a perfect game

Regardless of pitcher
Bunting for a base hit can be with any outs!

____________________

As for the story the op presented about the coach,
The coach did this or that,
For me its an explanation of their actions representing the coaches mindset. It comes without any communication from the coach about their strategy reasonings.
Thats the gap in the story.

People can have opinions towards how to coach in the last inning with score as it was....
what i gleen from it,
Theres no part of the story where the coach after the game or later at practice communicated what they were intending to accomplish.
That in itself leaves questioning on the table!

 

[Quasimodo]

As for any team trying to hit offYeah of Debbie Doom,
Expect one or maybe two base hits for your team that game...then again...
if she doesnt pitch a no hitter against you,
it just may be a perfect game

Regardless of pitcher
Bunting for a base hit can be with any outs!

____________________

As for the story the op presented about the coach,
The coach did this or that,
For me its an explanation of their actions representing the coaches mindset. It comes without any communication from the coach about their strategy reasonings.
Thats the gap in the story.

People can have opinions towards how to coach in the last inning with score as it was....
what i gleen from it,
Theres no part of the story where the coach after the game or later at practice communicated what they were intending to accomplish.
That in itself leaves questioning on the table!

Yeah, but Debbie Doom couldn't throw to 1B. She had to hire Fed-Ex to get it there. A lot of players bunted in her zone for that reason. Again, if you read my post, it does not condemn bunting with two outs if strategic. I gave examples. I wouldn't do it with Stacey Nuveman at bat, but would with a fast runner, good bunter. " . . . .but not laid in concrete as in never, ever, like bunting with 2 outs (in other words bunting with two outs is not an "Axiom) "Generally not such a great idea, but what about a slapper or a 3B playing on the outfield grass?" There are exceptions as mentioned more than once. I have explained several times, several exceptions, but I keep hearing I am against bunting with two outs. I am not, if it is calculated.

There are bunts, and then again there are bunts!

 

[radness]

Yeah, but Debbie Doom couldn't throw to 1B. She had to hire Fed-Ex to get it there. A lot of players bunted in her zone for that reason. Again, if you read my post, it does not condemn bunting with two outs if strategic. I gave examples. I wouldn't do it with Stacey Nuveman at bat, but would with a fast runner, good bunter. " . . . .but not laid in concrete as in never, ever, like bunting with 2 outs (in other words bunting with two outs is not an "Axiom) "Generally not such a great idea, but what about a slapper or a 3B playing on the outfield grass?" There are exceptions as mentioned more than once. I have explained several times, several exceptions, but I keep hearing I am against bunting with two outs. I am not, if it is calculated.

There are bunts, and then again there are bunts!

( familiar with the Doom'er...played against her!)
she could take one long stride and hand it to first base!

If you read my post i agree with bunting as an on base strategy!
Yes even with 2 outs,
And have bunted with 2 strikes!