Saw a team get robbed.

[Dtwn92]

Still not sure exactly what we are talking about here??

If it was crow hopping or leaping the chances that this was the first time in six innings the pitcher did this is probably zero (or was this a sub pitcher and this was her first inning) and choosing to call the violation for the first time, while 100% correct and legal, with a runner at third in the sixth inning is B.S. and well all know it.

Now on the other hand when a pitcher say comes together separate starts moving then stops comes together again and separates and moves again my reaction as an ump was instinctive I don't know that I could even stop myself if I tried, I would stop play immediately the first time every time, then explain the rule if the pitcher or coach was unsure.

Pretty much what everyone with common sense would do.

Guess I have been umpiring wrong all these years. From now on I will make sure to consult with my partner on every call I make to be absolutely sure he saw the same thing I saw.

Novel idea really. This would probably be better than walking the winning run home from a WS game then calling time. Heck looks like even you learned something from this tread, makes it all worthwhile then I guess.

 

[shockcoach]

You do not issue a warning, you call what you see! If the umpire comes out to issue a warning and I'm the offensive coach, you had better believe that I'm going be upset they didn't call what they saw and they will get an earful. However, if they don't do anything and let the girls play, I will be content. If you stop the game to issue a warning for IP...NO WAY! I'm with Comp on this one.

 

[Comp]

Ill be sure to institute your suggestions in the very next game I umpire. NOT

Rules are rules, you do not pick and choose which to enforce and which ones not to enforce, let alone based on the game situation. You have no idea how many times I have heard the lame argument "how can you call that at this point of the game?" Ummm, because its the rules and I enforce them in the first inning just as I do in the 7th inning. If its against the rules in the 1st, what makes it any less illegal in the 7th with the game winning run on 3rd? Both teams are playing under the same rule set and both deserve to have the rules enforced as written, not having some umpire picking and choosing what he is going to enforce.

 

[David Carter]

Dtwn92....I am still not sure why you can not just say exactly what happened unless I just missed it in all the posts. Was this a instance of crow hopping or leaping for six innings that the umpire ignored for six innings only to call it after 100 pitches or not!!

The umpire is perfectly within their right to call the IP at any time but if this is the case we can all agree the ump displayed poor judgement by not calling it the first time he noticed it, but I think if you are looking for everyone to say they did something wrong I don't think you are not going to find much sympathy, since by calling for a warning you are basically admitting that the player did in fact do something wrong.

As far as umpires asking for help in making a call I don't think you will find too many umpires that refuse to ask for help in most cases but in needs to be a call where asking for help makes sense...if a girl is sliding into home and I am the PU I don't need help, now if as the coach you argue that in the cloud of dust I did not see the ball come out of the catchers glove I might go ask the other umpires if they saw the ball on the ground, on a bang bang play at first as the 1B ump I don't need help if you say she pulled her foot I am only asking for help if I was slightly out of position and could not see her foot. Most of the time if the ump is in the right position and nothing out of the ordinary happens the umpire does not need help... I have yet to hear exactly what was out of the ordinary in this case.

 

[Dtwn92]

Not sure why he called the illegal pitch, or for what reason. The pitcher in question pitched roughly 50 games last season and that was the only illegal pitch I remember her getting. In other words it was not the norm for her to have this called against her. The coach was a stickler for technique in all aspects of the game so I don't think it was something coached. We played mostly USSSA tourneys last year so the rules where known and this wasn't a 'new thing' to the team. As for calling for a warning, I've seen many times in the past the ump either talked to the coaches of both teams, had a confab about the pitcher in question prior to making the call. To me at the end of the game, to use this call to walk the winning run home regardless of what some have said seems like a horrible time use the rules as they are written. He used this time to push the winning run across the plate and call time on the game. Even if it is with in the rules and he is doing his job, at this crucial part of the game for 25 players, 6-8 coaches and countless parents this is a shirt time to use the rules to the letter of the law.

Also, COMP as you say rules are rules this is a judgement call, he at least owes the coach of the team an explanation as to why he called this call, so in the very least for future reference this problem, if there was one, this pitcher doesn't do this foul again in another game. The ump owes no one nothing but a clean called game and the courtesy of being human and having common sense. He failed at that as well.

I'm not new to sports or game play. I played hockey at a college level and ref'd hockey at about the same level, so get off your high horse and stop acting like you have never taken a rule as it is written to far or maybe after the fact said, did I make the correct call there? Because being human does that to someone. If I was to make a call at a crucial point of the game that might have costed someone a chance at letting the players decide a game on the ice, I at least had the balls to stick around and tell them why! Again I guess some are good at being officails and some take the silly uniform to extreme, let the power go to their head and become DB's and hide behind the "written rules" funny thou, any time someone has to take an officiating exam, they get quizzed on taking rules to far or beyond the scope of what they are written for.

@David not looking for sympathy. I just wanted to share a story on getting job'd. So glad a REAL ump jumped in here to change my mind on what I say and the communications I had about that game and the people I talked to felt the same way.

@Shock I'm betting at that point of a game if you seen an illegal pitch from another team/player you'd either expect it to be let go or you'd do your job and inform the official that it was going on. At that point I'm betting you be shocked (no pun) that, that call was made and you won said game like that.

@Comp I remember Jim Joyce called a play at 1st as he seen it and knew was correct, didn't consult his fellow umps and cost a pitcher a perfect game. As he walked to the umps room he said as much and made the statement I should have consulted others. He on the field knew he was correct in his call, cuz umps always make the right call, amirite?

 

[Ajaywill]

Dtwn92 - you say to let the players decide the game, don't make a call like that at that point in the game, etc, etc, ect.....

Last I checked, games are played for 7 innings (or time limit) one single play or call had NEVER decided a game....the team that lost had multiple opportunities to get additional hits, score additional runs, make less errors, throw different pitches, etc., during the prior playing time.

Sounds like typical fan/player/coach speak to me.....

 

[GOINGDEEP]

What cracks me up "watching" a game like this................

One fan side yelling "good call blue", and the other side cussing the blue.

I've played my whole life, I've coached for many years, I umpired one year and said "fudge this".

 

[Dtwn92]

Sounds like typical fan/player/coach speak to me.....

Yep, totally correct on that point. I'm talking from a father and fan of the sport someone who has been an official and I'd rather see a mental error, a hit or a close play at the plate. Officials are paid to be there and the best officials are the ones "YOU NEVER REALIZED THEY WERE THERE".

one single play or call had NEVER decided a game

Lots of games are decided on a single play or call. Its a game of inches for a reason.

Something occurred to me while reading this. Most think I'm absolutely wrong, yet most only know the very small snippet I've shared and didn't watch the entire game or have a real clue what the pitch or the call looked like. Rules are rules....
I also see 15 page threads arguing on how posted video of a swing is good, bad, horrible, really good, needs work. Then you get into how this persons teaching is the best and this ones is no good.
Mechanics are mechanics and what one person sees as needing adjustment another sees a great swing in the making.
Its all opinion and what matters is the girls learn from the game and grow. Adults seem to have a way of enforcing and expiditing this learning and growth. Sad part is, they are the ones who suffer in our no offense ticky tac calls. But rules are rules....

 

[AngelsFan01]

Just had this happen to my kid's team on Saturday. Second inning, we are up 2-0, runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 outs. Batter gets a called strike (very audible umpire, by the way!), and the double steal is on. Catcher (my kid) throws to third, but the base is stolen. Next pitch is a swinging strike, and the blue says the count is 1-1. As the official scorekeeper, I tell him I have 0-2. He comes over to talk to me and as I'm explaining how I have 0-2, somebody from OUR OWN dugout yells that he has 1-1. The blue doesn't let me finish, says that my dugout has what he has and that's the count. Next pitch? Strike...then a hit... the opposing team ends up scoring 5 runs by the time we can get the 3rd out...and we lose 5-2!

We actually had another bad call on Sunday during the championship game on an interference call when the lead runner was sent back to 3rd instead of being called out on an interference call on the B/R...but that problem was more because our coaches didn't know the rule rather than the umpire's bad call.

Needless to say, I had a conversation with the coaching staff last night letting them know that when I'm the official, stay out of it...just like I stay out of their coaching when they're on the field (as much as I'd like to put my two cents in!! LOL).

 

[Comp]

We actually had another bad call on Sunday during the championship game on an interference call when the lead runner was sent back to 3rd instead of being called out on an interference call on the B/R...but that problem was more because our coaches didn't know the rule rather than the umpire's bad call.

Care to elaborate here? Because if the interference call was on the B/R, that is who is out, not the lead runner. Putting the runner back at 3rd would then be the correct call and not a bad call.