- Dec 15, 2009
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less than 2 outs. runner on third. batter is walked. DOES NOT GO TO SECOND. you know the runner will steal on the next pitch. what do you do?
runner on third....
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- Jul 26, 2010
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What age division/skill level? How good is the catcher? How fast is the runner on third? What is the score? What inning?
Too many questions to answer this one with the given information. The only good answer is "it depends".
-W
Too many questions to answer this one with the given information. The only good answer is "it depends".
-W
- Dec 15, 2009
- 188
- 0
age divsion is 14 & under. catcher is pretty good. runner on 3rd is average. runner on 1st is fast. our team is down by 5, but we have weak bats. its the 6th inning.
The correct way is for the catcher to look the runner back at 3B, then throw out the runner at 2B, and then double the runner coming in from 3rd base.
At 12U and 14U, the catchers aren't usually strong enough to make quick throws, and the infielders are too inconsistent to play it correctly.
At that age level, there is a bunch of "trick plays" that coaches use...throw it 2B who is moving in toward home plate, or throw it hard and have the pitcher cut it off, or throw it to 1B so 1B can tag her when she rounds 1B. Whatever...it doesn't matter. None of them work very well. IMHO, it is a waste of time to practice these tricks.
What I do recommend is to practice making the play the way it is supposed to be made--throwing out the runner at 2B and then getting the runner at home. This strategy will almost never work at 12U, and only once in a while at 14U, but at least you are teaching the kids the way it is supposed to be done. (During a close game, let the runner have 2B and forget it. During a friendly game, go for the runner and let the kids try it. The occasional surprise double play is something to talk about.)
At 16U, good catchers and infielders can easily throw out both runners. By college, a coach would be crazy to try it.
At 12U and 14U, the catchers aren't usually strong enough to make quick throws, and the infielders are too inconsistent to play it correctly.
At that age level, there is a bunch of "trick plays" that coaches use...throw it 2B who is moving in toward home plate, or throw it hard and have the pitcher cut it off, or throw it to 1B so 1B can tag her when she rounds 1B. Whatever...it doesn't matter. None of them work very well. IMHO, it is a waste of time to practice these tricks.
What I do recommend is to practice making the play the way it is supposed to be made--throwing out the runner at 2B and then getting the runner at home. This strategy will almost never work at 12U, and only once in a while at 14U, but at least you are teaching the kids the way it is supposed to be done. (During a close game, let the runner have 2B and forget it. During a friendly game, go for the runner and let the kids try it. The occasional surprise double play is something to talk about.)
At 16U, good catchers and infielders can easily throw out both runners. By college, a coach would be crazy to try it.
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I agree with virtually everything "sluggers" said. However, at 14u a good practice is to have your catcher fire the ball back to pitcher every pitch. This helps on several fronts - avoids delay steal with lazy throw, helps catcher develop quick short release, also allows pitcher many options from mound that catcher might not be able to execute at 14u level and finally, if you have "look back" or "hesitation" rule this will force runners to commit early (if that runner stops and returns once pitcher has ball - she's out). In the your scenario - I've had the pitcher look the runner back at third - turn and get the runner at second. The key is getting the runner at third moving back towards third which makes it next to impossible for her to turn and go home in time. Be careful not to get caught in "run-down" play which is designed to allow girl from third to score during run down in certain situations. Just my 2 cents.
do the math.
a normal hs level pop time is 2.3 sec, avg college is ~2, really good college is 1.8 or so.
In all actuality, it will take 4 sec and two perfect throws to get the runner at the plate.
Avg runners can make it in 3.3 sec, really fast in 2.7 or so. This means you are depending on the length of the runners hesitation to determine whether she will make it or not, as well as if two perfect throws can be made, the catcher can setup perfectly, and the runner does not hook-slide or such away from a tag.
Basically, that runner has a high chance of scoring. Its when they dont expect it, and hesitate and dont leave soon enough, that they get thrown out. A normal delay would be .5+ sec to insure the throw went to bag and not a cut-off play. If they just headed for home the instant the throw was made you wouldnt have a chance.
a normal hs level pop time is 2.3 sec, avg college is ~2, really good college is 1.8 or so.
In all actuality, it will take 4 sec and two perfect throws to get the runner at the plate.
Avg runners can make it in 3.3 sec, really fast in 2.7 or so. This means you are depending on the length of the runners hesitation to determine whether she will make it or not, as well as if two perfect throws can be made, the catcher can setup perfectly, and the runner does not hook-slide or such away from a tag.
Basically, that runner has a high chance of scoring. Its when they dont expect it, and hesitate and dont leave soon enough, that they get thrown out. A normal delay would be .5+ sec to insure the throw went to bag and not a cut-off play. If they just headed for home the instant the throw was made you wouldnt have a chance.
I'm pretty sure a runner is entitled to ONE stop once the pitcher has the ball in the circle. Even the BR (following a walk) can round 1st, head toward 2nd, stop & return to 1st, as long as she immediately heads one to direction or the other after the stop.
I just had a conversation on an umpire forum and the VAST majority said my understanding is correct. Bret can also clarify.
Always take the out at second, if you have the catcher and fielder to get it, Unless the game is tied and its the 7'th inning.
You are correct. And the runner on 3rd can do anything that she wants to do, until the batter/runner touches 1st base.
I think we need a sticky for the most frequently asked questions and rules. We could just copy all of Brettman's posts.
