rise vs drop

[NVfishing]

Speaking as a pitcher's dad. I love to see those Ks. But as a coach I would rather see 3 easy outs, regardless of how they come. 3 pitches and 3 outs I will take over 3ks. It keeps her fresh for the later innings, maybe she might have to pitch in game 2 of a doubleheader. Or pitch in 2 more games that day. One of the most important numbers (in my opinion) to track on a pitcher is average pitches per inning. Those fast easy innings bring that number down and make a pitcher more efficient. The team goal is outs, not Ks.

I agree. I'd rather have three pitches with weak grounders/throw outs than 9 pitches for K's.

 

[Mrek]

Speaking as a pitcher's dad. I love to see those Ks. But as a coach I would rather see 3 easy outs, regardless of how they come. 3 pitches and 3 outs I will take over 3ks. It keeps her fresh for the later innings, maybe she might have to pitch in game 2 of a doubleheader. Or pitch in 2 more games that day. One of the most important numbers (in my opinion) to track on a pitcher is average pitches per inning. Those fast easy innings bring that number down and make a pitcher more efficient. The team goal is outs, not Ks.

How about this for average pitch type of analysis...

Let say a strikeout averages 5 pitches per K.
And say a ground ball in play averages 3 pitches.
And let’s say the opposing team bats .150 against the K's
And let’s say the opposing team bats .250 against the ground balls
And let’s say you have a team fielding % of .900

Then (for this example all outs are either ground balls or K's)...

0 K - 0 pitches
21 Outs - 63 pitches
5 Hits - 15 pitches
4 Errors (42 chances) - 12 pitches

90 pitches total

10 K - 50 pitches
11 Outs - 33 pitches
4 hits - 12 pitches
2 Errors (22 chances) - 6 pitches

101 pitches total


While these examples are only two points on the curve, it points out that the difference in the number of pitches is not what one might think.

Yes the numbers can be twisted in many ways but in my experience, what racks up pitch counts is not K's, but Hits, Walks and Errors.

Mostly Walks and Errors.

But if your pitcher can consistently get a playable ground ball every pitch or two, I can't disagree with your point.

 

[Sparky Guy]

While these examples are only two points on the curve, it points out that the difference in the number of pitches is not what one might think.

Yes the numbers can be twisted in many ways but in my experience, what racks up pitch counts is not K's, but Hits, Walks and Errors.

There are also several intangibles that go along with a K pitcher. They can frustrate a team at the plate making them do things they might not normally do trying to put runners on. The defense always seems to play better behind a K pitcher. Usually with a K pitcher the opposition offense does not hit the ball as hard when they put them in play. Don't get me wrong. There are hard hit balls, it just seems there's not as many. The other thing is the "Killer K" with a runner on 3rd in a tight game and the pitcher comes up with the K to end the threat. That kills a team.

My daughter was a riseball pitcher. She had a real good one. During HS and travel she'd average 10 K's a game. During college she averaged 8-10 K's a game her 1st two years in college. Then the NCAA shrunk the strike zone on the top and bottom. She averaged 7-8 K's per game. The other thing that happens is the other coaches and hitters in the conference start to make adjustments after a while. During my daughter's senior year she ended up using more screws and drop curves to get the hitters out. The rise became more of a setup pitch. Her drop was weak and change-up was erratic.

 

[Jojo]

My daughter was a riseball pitcher. She had a real good one. During HS and travel she'd average 10 K's a game. During college she averaged 8-10 K's a game her 1st two years in college. Then the NCAA shrunk the strike zone on the top and bottom. She averaged 7-8 K's per game. The other thing that happens is the other coaches and hitters in the conference start to make adjustments after a while. During my daughter's senior year she ended up using more screws and drop curves to get the hitters out. The rise became more of a setup pitch. Her drop was weak and change-up was erratic.

Mine had to keep her rise low in the zone, the strike zone was TINY, plus the teams learned not to swing at anything they thought may be a little over the waist high.
Threw the screw more and they stood in the back of the box not swinging at anything they thought might be inside and big cuts if she hit the inside corner.
It was just adjust, adjust adjust.

 

[NVfishing]

Back to the topic. Good hitters have a hard time with a drop curve. Good hitters don't have as hard of a time with a rise. The rise seems to go more out of the strike zone and a good batter knows when to lay off. My DD made a girl almost fall over last week reaching for the drop curve. That was a good pitch.

 

[Jojo]

Back to the topic. Good hitters have a hard time with a drop curve. Good hitters don't have as hard of a time with a rise. The rise seems to go more out of the strike zone and a good batter knows when to lay off. My DD made a girl almost fall over last week reaching for the drop curve. That was a good pitch.

Make it a great off-speed pitch and it's truly laughable.