Rise ball young pitcher

[flamethrower]

renntiger is a genius.

 

[DOG310]

Rentiger is a genius

So I thought, until he jumped back in!!!

 

[Greenmonsters]

Renntiger:
I apologize that I have not read all of your posts completely, but I think I get your overall drift in this argument in this statement pulled from one of your posts: "It is the contention of this camp (and of the scientific community) that a riseball thrown by a human pitcher does not have enough lift to overcome gravity and "rise" above its initial path, but there would be enough lift to reduce the rate at which the ball "falls" from the said path."
Your contention is wrong. No matter how you try to frame your rationalizations, there is a world of softball players and aficionados that observe or actually try to bat against a well-thrown rise (with mixed results). And that is the key -- there is an infinite number of pitches intended to be risers that result in degrees of success in actually increasing their trajectory. The "scientific community" simply doesn't have all the data. Whether the spin is effectively oriented or rotating fast enough, or the speed of the pitch is complementary, or the air conditions (wind, humidity, etc) are beneficial, they all affect the results. Trying to rebuff the "yes" crowd (as you break us down) by referring to certain videos that show riseballs with minimal lift isn't holding any weight with me. I have seen pitchers like Sarah Pauly in person -- her ball rises. I have friends who have caught riseballs which nearly break their glove arm trying to catch up with a skyrocket of a pitch. Those balls ain't just falling to earth slower than other pitches, for sure.
Jim

Would you think differently knowing that Pauly's pitching coach (her dad) is in the "no rise" camp! Here's a link to an old thread w/ some photos (starting w/ post #54) and side views of Pauly's rise v. other pitches starting around post #109. Enjoy!
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/83-does-riseball-really-rise.html

 

[chinamigarden]

OK so let me ask everyone this about the rise ball. If you believe that it does not rise, do you explain why this is to your DD when she is learning the pitch? If so how does that help? Would you change the name of the pitch to eliminate the "confusion" Would you call it "doesn't sink as fast as a fastball so it appears to rise ball"? And why do you care that others think it actually rises?

All you folks who believe it rises (which BTW I belong to the other group) why do you care so much that someone else believes otherwise?

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

OK so let me ask everyone this about the rise ball. If you believe that it does not rise, do you explain why this is to your DD when she is learning the pitch? If so how does that help? Would you change the name of the pitch to eliminate the "confusion" Would you call it "doesn't sink as fast as a fastball so it appears to rise ball"? And why do you care that others think it actually rises?

All you folks who believe it rises (which BTW I belong to the other group) why do you care so much that someone else believes otherwise?

If and when my DD learns a "rise ball" as a teenager, the following is what I am going to tell her and why:

- Rise ball (my definition) - a ball thrown with great velocity and 6/12 backspin from a point at the hip (release) to a point above the catchers head in the straightest line possible in an attempt to maintain the ball path on this line (plane of trajectory);

- The more velocity and spin she achieves, the greater the ball will attempt to stay on this line. The shallower the parabolic arc from point A to point B the more effective the pitch. Said another way, the flatter the pitch the better as long as it is thrown on this line.

- She will not be frustrated that her pitch does not curve up or "rise" above this initial plane of trajectory because she will understand that all softballs thrown at an angle to the ground by a human arm have a parabolic arc to it.

She will be a teenager and understand the concept.

Lastly, I would not change the name of the pitch but make sure people have a modern understanding of the definition of the pitch.

 

[Jojo]

The McGurk effect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypd5txtGdGw

 

[redhawkridge]

There's no McGurk efffect in my (or any other person's) expectation of what a pitch does when it is released. When I'm watching the College World Series, I don't "expect" to see a rise ball before it's pitched; neither do I expect to see the ball rise at any fastpitch game, male or female. But when I observe a pitch that both the catcher and the hitter lock onto as it approaches the plate and it rises above the anticipated path, then I say "nice rise". Don't confuse the anticipated path with a gravity-defined descent. Batters and catchers can recognize a pitch's path, and they will adjust, but the well-executed rise can defeat their reaction mechanism, which for the batter means a strike and for the catcher means a lunge to snag the ball.
Renntiger and other riseball-doubters:
I'd love to provide video evidence of a riseball as we believers define it, but I don't have access to the photo hardware needed. I respect Rick Pauly's expertise, which has been referenced, but you might ask Rick Pauly if he believes the pitchers he faced in Wis such as Bob Moore or Mike McMahon didn't have riseballs that actually rose. The bottom-line evidence I base my conviction on is the experience of being a catcher waiting to catch a pitch, that pitch leaving the pitcher's hand on a upward path different from all other pitches that forces me to adjust continuously upward until I can haul it in.
jim

 

[ArmWhip]

I don't "expect" to see a rise ball before it's pitched; neither do I expect to see the ball rise at any fastpitch game, male or female.

It's not about what you 'expect' to see, it's about the perceptual mechanisms of the human body. Whether or not you 'expect' to see an optical illusion does not change the fact that it appears, and even though you know that it is an illusion it doesn't go away. The brain makes automatic judgments based on perceptual evidence combined with prior history or memory, this mechanism can be fooled. This same tired argument can be found in baseball with hitters swearing that a certain pitcher has a fastball that hops or jumps when it gets close to the plate and goes over the bat. There is plenty of high speed video available and to date no fastball has been seen to 'hop' or 'jump'.

 

[HollowMan]

Here's an interesting article on why pitches seem to 'hop' or 'jump' then they get close to the plate.

Curveballs: When What You See Isn't What You Get : NPR

 

[joemcq51]

My DD threw her first "riseball" in a game. It hopped right over the left fielders head. Guess she needs some work on that pitch.