Push/Stride Length

[EP Dad]

And the distraction continues..............



You see a front step OFF THE RUBBER?

What you see is a slight pivot foot slide toward the camera to the shallow side of the hole in front of the plate, which is totally legal........And exactly what my pitchers are taught when there is a LARGE HOLE in front of the rubber.........Then her toes begin moving downward into the hole as she loads her drive leg for the push..........The red line marks her heel.........There is ZERO forward step off the rubber with the pivot foot prior to the forward push.........

Here is the original video clip..........You can play it until the cows come home.........



There is no CHEATING as Hal Skinner has accused her off........And she is COMPLETELY LEGAL unlike Hal Skinner contends........

The simple fact that he goes to such lengths to discredit people who disagree with him speaks volumes to me about his character.........And his aggenda to push his wares.........

I have no idea what the argument is between you and Hal but I noticed this while watching your video.

Where my DD pitches she has to have both feet on the rubber until her stride foot comes out and then she drags her back foot. There is no way that is legal where my daughter plays. In fact she has been called for an illegal pitch for doing that very thing.

 

[Madsdad]

I believe that at the high school players in our area are allowed to have the rear foot off in are area.

 

[BoardMember]

EP........If your DD ever pitches HS ball she won't be called for stepping back.........This is a High School game. I don't expect you to read the entire thread. But if you did you'd already know this.

NFHS (national federation of high schools) HS Softball Around the Country.........

2012 NFHS SOFTBALL POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. PITCHING
A. Pitching Regulations. NFHS pitching regulations were created and are maintained for high-school-age pitchers of all skill levels, not just those seeking participation opportunities at higher levels. A high school pitcher may begin with one or two feet on the pitching plate. The pitcher may also step back (before the hands come together) and then forward to gain momentum in her pitching motion.

There is no issue with her stride foot stepping back.........

I posted the clip as an example of a straight push-off/drag vs. a "LEAP" and drag........Basically to make a point that you do NOT/SHOULD NOT have to LEAP to create a powerful leg drive that is NOT a "step and pitch" motion........The point being that a straight push is more efficient and powerfull and less injurous then a leap and drag motion.........

From there the thread degraded to Skinner claiming she CHEATS by stepping forward OFF THE MOUND in order to gain an advantage and decrease the distance........

 

[EP Dad]

I see. Now I learned something. I don't really understand why all the different rules all the time.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

NFHS (national federation of high schools) HS Softball Around the Country.........

2012 NFHS SOFTBALL POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. PITCHING
A. Pitching Regulations. NFHS pitching regulations were created and are maintained for high-school-age pitchers of all skill levels, not just those seeking participation opportunities at higher levels. A high school pitcher may begin with one or two feet on the pitching plate. The pitcher may also step back (before the hands come together) and then forward to gain momentum in her pitching motion.

There is no issue with her stride foot stepping back.........

I have so many questions now....

I would assume that there is an advantage to having the back foot off the mound?

Do most pitchers pitch one style in HS and then another in tournaments?

Does this have any impact on speed or accuracy?

 

[BoardMember]

I have so many questions now....

I would assume that there is an advantage to having the back foot off the mound?

Yes these is some advantage for the initial push feet are split farther apart IMO. The HS rule is in place to allow pitchers of different calibers to have the same advantage according the the Federation Rule Book.

Do most pitchers pitch one style in HS and then another in tournaments?

Some do........Some don't. High School games are usually once or twice a week. When you've pitched travel ball from age 9 until HS, you don't have a problem keeping 2 feet on the rubber for ASA games.

I believe there are some PC's that insist you keep both feet on the rubber because they don't believe kids are smart enough to use both motions. They can throw rise or change or drop or curve......But they aren't smart enough to alternate between 1 foot and 2 feet...........Obviously you see my feelings on this...........

Does this have any impact on speed or accuracy?

As for speed, it's been said for example that the backward arm swing running start of the arm does not increase speed. It's the same principle........I have my feelings on this........Others don't feel the same way..........My DD had no increase or decrease in velocity whether she had one or two feet in the rubber........She said it was just easier to shift her weight when she stepped back. IOW, she expended less energy with the step back.........

As for accuracy. It made zero difference..........

 

[Hillhouse]

I have so many questions now....

I would assume that there is an advantage to having the back foot off the mound?

Do most pitchers pitch one style in HS and then another in tournaments?

Does this have any impact on speed or accuracy?

As most of you know, I never played baseball. I grew up playing (pitching) fastpitch. I played under ASA rules while a teenager pitching in the men's league in town. These rules allowed for me to step back off the rubber. I went to some ASA 18under (boys) nationals and pitched that same way a few times. Then, at the ripe old age of 18, I went to play International softball for the first time in New Zealand and had to throw with 2 feet on the rubber. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Playing against some of the best players in the world, at 18 years old, and pitching in a way I had never done before. I got MURDERED in the first half of the season, then I worked through it. The 2nd half of that year, I went on to win MVP at a national championship there. Later, I went on to pitch for the US team multiple times and in several other countries all using the 2 feet rule. But it was EXTREMELY difficult at first because I had never done it before. Imagine using your fork with the other hand, or brushing your teeth with the opposite hand, it feels incredibly strange, right? It's the same thing.. my muscle memory was set with 1 foot on the rubber. I had to relearn how to pitch.

When I was in NZ, I pitched that way. When in the USA, I pitched the ASA way. I probably should've just stuck to one way but, I have never done things the easy way. Only in years that I played for USA did I pitch the International way the entire season. Since there wasn't a lot of USA events for men, I didn't have to worry about it much!!!

There is no comparison. Throwing with 1 foot on the rubber is INFINITELY easier than 2 feet. Many of you will remember the poster a few months back, "X Pitcher" who used to cry and complain about the 1 foot pitching rule (among other things). The 1 foot thing is so much easier and allows for so much more momentum and power that it's not even close.

MOST pitchers pick one way to pitch and stick with it. HS pitchers that also play travel, usually stick to pitching with 2 feet on the rubber instead of bouncing back and forth. The answer to GunnerShotgun's questions, yes it has an impact on speed and the accuracy thing is more about the timing difference than anything else. Accuracy problems are often timing related anyway, so changing how one pitches will effect that.

Personally, when I'm with a student... I ask what their goal is. If they are ONLY worried about playing in high school (having no college softball ambition or beyond) then I let her pitch with 1 foot. If she has dreams of playing for a college team or national team, then she has to learn based on the rules of today. I still believe those rules will change in the near future to allow 1 foot on the rubber in all levels but, until it does, we will have multiple rules for multiple organizations.


Bill

 

[BoardMember]

And to Bill's point. He learned with 1 foot on. So keeping 2 feet on was a challenge. When the senario is just the opposite, which is the case with most HS pitchers, they learn with 2 feet on for ASA rec and travel ball, and pitch that way for many years before they reach HS ball.......So stepping back for HS is a much easier transition to manage.

I believe him when he says he feels a huge advantage with one foot on over two feet on. When you are used to stepping back and you learned to pitch that way from the start as he did, the restriction of having to keep both on feet within the width of the rubber is extremely uncomfortable and disruptive to timing and momentum.

But if you learned with two feet.......Moving to one foot is pretty simple, and much less energy is spent developing the initial push strength because of the running start of the legs.........

I personally allow my students to choose how they wish to pitch in HS ball. Some don't want to mess with what they know. Others, many others in fact, had no problem discerning the difference, and enjoyed the easier motion of the step back........

None of them missed an opportunity to pitch at the collegiate level because of the difference. And there were many. Including my DD. Who went on to be recruited to a high level D1 program, where in 4 years, was never called for an IP because of the two feet on rule.

So I think Biil's point that the difficulty of changing from one foot on to two feet on is valid. But I believe that for the opposite, it's not any bigger deal then learning different pitches........That's been my experience over the years......

I've never had a pitcher who plays high level travel ball, and transitioned to college ball get called for an IP because of her experience in HS ball..........But that's just me and my students.........I can't speak for others.........

 

[nanotech14]

Not one pitcher in my area of any caliber, new or not, uses step style. Not one pitcher in my area keeps one foot back off the rubber in HS. Well maybe one kid who never pitched before on JV does both, so another useless discussion. But the personal attacks are ridiculous and BM, you do sell lessons from this, I am sure, so let's not be so holier than thou.

If you could keep one foot off the rubber in all the abc orgs. You would never want to go back to having two on the rubber again. Well for someone not wanting to see things getting personal. You just jumped in with both feet. After spending the weekend watching the best men's pitchers in the world and I do mean the world, if we could let our girls have one foot off the rubber like the men do. You would never want to go back to having two feet on the rubber.

 

[BoardMember]

Not one pitcher in my area of any caliber, new or not, uses step style.

Ya no kidding. I've been saying that since Hal brought the term to this board........In fact many of us have been asking Hal for an example of this style for a long time........He can't produce one..........

Not one pitcher in my area keeps one foot back off the rubber in HS. Well maybe one kid who never pitched before on JV does both, so another useless discussion......

And why does what happens in "your area" matter to us? So let me get this straight........Because you don't know any pitcher in your area that uses both styles for HS vs. travel ball, the discussion is useless???..........Why does what happens in YOUR area make the discussion useless???.........Kind of a stretch doncha think??

BM, you do sell lessons from this, I am sure, so let's not be so holier than thou.

I haven't charged for a lesson.........A Comparison clip.........Mechanical Advise..........Mental advise........Or any other advise for that matter since BEFORE I started posting on this board in '09.........You can take that to the bank..........My days of charging for lessons are LONG GONE...........I don't need the money........Nor do I need a job.........I never needed either.

In fact the only reason I EVERY charged for lessons was so I could take the wife to dinner and buy the kids some things for all the time I spent at the cages and on the field coaching/giving lessons for over 25 years........You see, it wasn't "my job"........It was my passion........And they put up with it for ALL THOSE YEARS.........

That should be evident by the amount of FREE time and effort I've spent/continue to spend on this NO CHARGE board helping people learn the important points of pitching..........WITHOUT advertising my books, methods or otherwise, in my signature, or on any website linked to my signature on this board........Or ANYWHERE ELSE for that matter.........

You must have a problem with how much information I'm willing to GIVE AWAY here.........Just can't believe it can you.........You aren't used to that kind of giving "in your area" are you..........

Look........Why don't you NOT try to tell me what I do and don't do with my personal time.......And I won't tell you what I think of some of your posts..........DEAL??

DEAL...........