Pressure Points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sweet Lou]

Maybe I'm misreading this... but if you're referring to what fingers influence the pitch... and the fingers that apply pressure, they are a great cue when learning new pitches for pitchers... really not sure why this is so comical to a few on this thread... as it's a decent and sincere question.

I think there is a difference between which fingers apply torque to generate good spin vs adding slight additional pressure on specific fingers to generate cut. But maybe I just don't understand what is being asked.

 

[javasource]

I think there is a difference between which fingers apply torque to generate good spin vs adding slight additional pressure on specific fingers to generate cut. But maybe I just don't understand what is being asked.

If I had to guess... the OP wants to know how to throw a fastball that is spun so there is some movement in towards the batter... but not a screwball. I call this the in-cut in softball... more of an 8-2 spin... like you get with good I/R. Big hands usually throw this with a 2-finger grip... many others with the standard three finger, four-seam grip. Either way... it's the role of the first 2-fingers and the hands orientation, IMO... with the index being the last off.

Not sure I understand how to torque a ball with the fingers... so I'm sorta confused there.

In general... Many of the cues we use while instructing change the hand orientation... which changes the location of the pressure exerted by the fingers on the ball... usually via the seams. We may think we're turning a doorknob... but what I see happening... is a cue creating a forearm articulation resulting in a different hand orientation... which changes where my fingers are on the ball during release (and some slight variations on when release occurs as well as the subsequent angle of release). If I really turned that doorknob with equal index and thumb pressure, I'd not get the pitch I was hoping for. I'll use that cue to vary the timing and level of pronation in the forearm... knowing that even the most nimble fingers are limited to adding spin... unless they are on the back-half of the ball. Depending on the pitch... I need to get the right fingers in the right positions... and when we're talking spin... definitely on a seam.

 

[javasource]

This post is about pressure points and pitches that move in the direction of the batter. The poster wants more info on that subject... what the grips look like, the mechanics, and the pressure exerted by the fingers to impart the spin axis that creates the desired movement.

It's not about HS. It's not about seminars. It's not about laughing in the face of kids that work all winter on a pitch. It's also not about opinions relating to men... the effectiveness of the pitch, or posters getting headaches. Offer something that is on subject and helpful to the OP's request.

Just to refute a few other absurd statements...

Grips have everything to do with pressure... that's what makes them 'grip'.
They also have everything to do with seams... that's why there is more than one grip.
Differing finger lengths?????!!!! That's 100% of the population... what area of the world do you live where the fingers are all the same length?

So... do the OP a favor and offer something that HELPS... like a video, pics, or explanation as to how it's done. Better yet, post some dates and locations of upcoming seminars...

 

[riseball]

It is an extremely effective pitch for a power pitcher, but the ones that can master it are few. Regardless of how you spin a ball when you get 26-29 rps the ball moves significantly.

 

[lollygagger84]

This post is about pressure points and pitches that move in the direction of the batter. The poster wants more info on that subject... what the grips look like, the mechanics, and the pressure exerted by the fingers to impart the spin axis that creates the desired movement.

It's not about HS. It's not about seminars. It's not about laughing in the face of kids that work all winter on a pitch. It's also not about opinions relating to men... the effectiveness of the pitch, or posters getting headaches. Offer something that is on subject and helpful to the OP's request.

Just to refute a few other absurd statements...

Grips have everything to do with pressure... that's what makes them 'grip'.
They also have everything to do with seams... that's why there is more than one grip.
Differing finger lengths?????!!!! That's 100% of the population... what area of the world do you live where the fingers are all the same length?

So... do the OP a favor and offer something that HELPS... like a video, pics, or explanation as to how it's done. Better yet, post some dates and locations of upcoming seminars...

This has been very helpful, I will be posting some videos of my DD soon on here, I'd love for you to analyze them.

 

[RetiredCoach]

It is an extremely effective pitch for a power pitcher, but the ones that can master it are few. Regardless of how you spin a ball when you get 26-29 rps the ball moves significantly.

Because I am in this situation with both of my DDs right now, what would you recommend them to work on next? They are 15 & 13, have good FBs, good CUs, and respectable drop balls. If I understand what HH would suggest, it would be for them to work on using finger pressure to get their DBs to move in or out. Others might suggest a curve or a screw. What to do?

 

[riseball]

It is an extremely effective pitch for a power pitcher, but the ones that can master it are few. Regardless of how you spin a ball when you get 26-29 rps the ball moves significantly.

Because I am in this situation with both of my DDs right now, what would you recommend them to work on next? They are 15 & 13, have good FBs, good CUs, and respectable drop balls. If I understand what HH would suggest, it would be for them to work on using finger pressure to get their DBs to move in or out. Others might suggest a curve or a screw. What to do?

Every pitch thrown in fastpitch or baseball is affected by finger pressure. There seems to be a myth that finger pressure is unique to to tailing fastballs or cutters. The truth is that finger pressure or lack thereof will affect every pitch thrown.

What is lost on the vast majority of young pitchers, bucket parents, and far too many pitching coaches it that there is no one size fits all recipe for pitching. What works for one pitcher may be a terrible solution for another pitcher. You have to find what works now and go with it. But you always keep experimenting.

My DD never could master the traditional palm up curve. However, because she has freakishly long levers and throws the ball very hard. Her go to pitches were the rise and the screw but really needed to find a way to get the ball to break away from a right handed batter. On a whim she decided to play around with a cutter and for her it was a very natural pitch. She found that by changing finger pressure, just like she did on her rise, screw, drop and every other pitch she could change the behavior of the pitch. Thrown in the upper 60's at 27rps it is an effective pitch. She has not thrown a screw in well over a year.

Yeah it is cliche but great pitching is a journey not a destination. You always have to keep experimenting. There is no "right way" to throw a pitch and make it move. However, there are some "wrong ways" to pitch that will cause physical damage so you need to be careful. The curve ball often gets blamed for causing injuries, but when you look a how it was being thrown you find out what really happened. Play with the cutter, curve, screw, and anything else that comes along. Find out what each of your daughters throws naturally and work to perfect the pitch. But understand that what works for DD#1 and what works for DD#2 may very well be quite different.

 

[RetiredCoach]

Every pitch thrown in fastpitch or baseball is affected by finger pressure. There seems to be a myth that finger pressure is unique to to tailing fastballs or cutters. The truth is that finger pressure or lack thereof will affect every pitch thrown.

What is lost on the vast majority of young pitchers, bucket parents, and far too many pitching coaches it that there is no one size fits all recipe for pitching. What works for one pitcher may be a terrible solution for another pitcher. You have to find what works now and go with it. But you always keep experimenting.

My DD never could master the traditional palm up curve. However, because she has freakishly long levers and throws the ball very hard. Her go to pitches were the rise and the screw but really needed to find a way to get the ball to break away from a right handed batter. On a whim she decided to play around with a cutter and for her it was a very natural pitch. She found that by changing finger pressure, just like she did on her rise, screw, drop and every other pitch she could change the behavior of the pitch. Thrown in the upper 60's at 27rps it is an effective pitch. She has not thrown a screw in well over a year.

Yeah it is cliche but great pitching is a journey not a destination. You always have to keep experimenting. There is no "right way" to throw a pitch and make it move. However, there are some "wrong ways" to pitch that will cause physical damage so you need to be careful. The curve ball often gets blamed for causing injuries, but when you look a how it was being thrown you find out what really happened. Play with the cutter, curve, screw, and anything else that comes along. Find out what each of your daughters throws naturally and work to perfect the pitch. But understand that what works for DD#1 and what works for DD#2 may very well be quite different.

Thanks RiseBall, you've clarified so much for me. I've been trying to figure out what is best for my DDs and, I think you are right, it is different for each of them. For example, my younger DD has been having success with the peel drop. I tried converting my older DD to the peel from the turnover in order to be able to get her to cut it in and out. However, she was inconsistent with it. Last night I told her to just go back to throwing the turnover and she did with much more success than the peel. She's sticking with that. So, for her next pitch we'll probably go with a curve, dcurve, or a screw. I guess we'll experiment and figure it out.

Thanks!

 

[Rick Pauly]

Lots of criteria determine ball movement.....speed, spin axis, release angle, release point, spin rate, seams.
If applying a certain finger pressure alters the spin axis it will alter the direction/amount of ball movement. The simplest test for downward moving pitches is to put some red electrical tape around the ball (perpendicular to the four seams), grip with the middle finger on and parallel with the tape and view the orientation of that tape each pitch relative to the different finger pressures applied. The tape will tell you the spin axis and you can experiment with a zillion finger pressures. Finger pressure combined with wrist orientation at time of release is a normal method of achieving all the movement pitches most elite level pitchers use.
The word "cutter" IMHO is a definition of the sharpness of the break. There is a method of making the ball move (slide) because of the seam of the ball forcing air to one side or the other......this is very erratic and sometimes you don't know which way the ball is going to move.

 

[mike s]

Several posts have touched around the edges of this, experiment. Specifically have your DD throw the ball with two fingers then a different two fingers, moved the thumb around and see what happens. Doing this is how my DD found a screwball that works for her. Don't just throw each combination once but several times. See what works. My DD went through so many grips for the drop until she finally found the one that worked for her. It is hard for the experts here (I am not an expert, just a dad) to give specific advice because of the individual differences of each pitcher.
The best part of experimenting is when she finds she owns it.