Poor pitch calling

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Feb 22, 2013
206
18
I am an assistant coach on a travel ball team that my dd plays on. My dd likes it when her bucket dad calls the pitches. As a bucket dad, I know what pitches my dd is supposed to have and how well she should be able to locate her pitches. As a bucket dad and a pitch caller, it usually takes me one to two innings to see which pitches that my dd can throw effectively on that particular day. One tournament she threw a ball with no seams and everytime she tried to throw the high heat, it got belted. One tournament, her roll over drop was flatter than McDonald's pancakes, that pitch got belted when thrown. In the last 2 months, she has pitched in 4 states and thrown six different brands of softballs, all with different seems.

As a bucket dad and pitch caller, there are days when my dd has the great ability to set up batters and rack up the K's. There are also days that my dd couldn't get ahead of a hitter to save her life, where it is very difficult to call anything but low fastballs, in and out. I have found that the games where my dd gets ahead of the hitters early in the count are the days that she can throw her full repetoire of pitches and she is very effective as a pitcher. The days where she struggles with the strike zone are days where the pitch calling bucket dad/AC also struggles. It is extremely difficult to set up a hitter when the pitcher is behind in the count all day.

I'd be the first to admit that my dd throws too many unnecessary pitches when her bucket dad is calling the game. Waste pitches are called when runners get on base. Outside pitches and high pitches are called in bunting situations, where the bucket dad is trying to see if the batter is going to tip her hand in laying down a bunt or checking to see if the runner is going to steal. Waste pitches are called in 0-2, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2 counts which are used as set up pitches for the following pitch. As a bucket dad/AC, pitch selection is often decided because of the strengths of the left or right side of the defense, field conditions and where the sun is.

My dd will shake off pitches that she doesn't like in certain counts. When she shakes off a pitch, it is her responsibility to try to find a pitch that she believes that she can throw with the greatest chance for success.

I've watched my dd pitch as a pick-up pitcher for other teams where catchers have called the pitches. She has been quite successful with these catchers. I've watched her pitch at triple crown recruiting camps where she told the catcher to put the glove where she wants it and she'll hit the spot. She has been successful there also.

As a bucket dad, I catch my dd 3 to 5 times a week. No two days are ever alike. Some days, I think she has the greatest control I have ever seen. Other days, I would swear that she's never thrown a softball in her life and her ability to focus is non existent and I have the bruises to support that thinking. In the end, when my dd gets ahead in the count early and often, her success rate goes up exponentially, regardless of who is calling the pitches or how many pitches that she is able to throw on that particular day.

A few weekends ago, I watched my dd throw an uneventful, no power, no spin game at 9:00 a.m. in the morning to a team that we should have beat solidly and take a loss. Five to seven hours latter, she shut down convincingly a team in pool play that eventually went on to win the tournament. She had several K's and had very good power and spin. The pitch calling was very different in the second game because my dd was constantly ahead in the count and could throw different pitches, up and down, in and out and a very good off speed.
 
Jun 7, 2013
984
0
GM posed a hypothetical question in an either/or context. I think we would all agree that no coach worth their salt goes with only one. I cannot imagine a top level coach goes with only the strengths of the pitcher while ignoring the strengths and weaknesses of the hitters.

That's exactly why I felt that I didn't understand the question. In a particular circumstance, I could not possibly imagine not calling a changeup even though it might be the pitcher's third most effective pitch. So, this makes sense to me now.
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,165
38
New England
As I said:

"Also keep in mind that in the very few upper level programs where the catchers do call pitches they invest a significant amount of time reviewing video of the opposition and meeting with coaches to develop a comprehensive pitch calling strategy. The do not just show up on game day and fly by the seat of their pants. In those situations the catcher truly becomes an extension of the coaching staff."

A MLB catcher is an extremely well compensated professional with years of experience not kid in High School or College. There are literally million$ of reason$ why MLB catchers call games. But as I said earlier they do not show up on game day and wing it. They are very well prepared and have significant experience. The analysis of MLB hitters is well documented and even available in the public domain so there are not many unknowns. Not to mention that MLB catchers have seen some hitters for years and know as much about their hitting as anyone. Comparing a MLB catcher with a TB or College Catcher is like comparing a Nurses Aide to a Brain Surgeon, they are worlds apart.

So where did the MLB catchers start getting their pitch calling experience?
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,165
38
New England
I am an assistant coach on a travel ball team that my dd plays on. My dd likes it when her bucket dad calls the pitches. As a bucket dad, I know what pitches my dd is supposed to have and how well she should be able to locate her pitches. As a bucket dad and a pitch caller, it usually takes me one to two innings to see which pitches that my dd can throw effectively on that particular day. One tournament she threw a ball with no seams and everytime she tried to throw the high heat, it got belted. One tournament, her roll over drop was flatter than McDonald's pancakes, that pitch got belted when thrown. In the last 2 months, she has pitched in 4 states and thrown six different brands of softballs, all with different seems.

As a bucket dad and pitch caller, there are days when my dd has the great ability to set up batters and rack up the K's. There are also days that my dd couldn't get ahead of a hitter to save her life, where it is very difficult to call anything but low fastballs, in and out. I have found that the games where my dd gets ahead of the hitters early in the count are the days that she can throw her full repetoire of pitches and she is very effective as a pitcher. The days where she struggles with the strike zone are days where the pitch calling bucket dad/AC also struggles. It is extremely difficult to set up a hitter when the pitcher is behind in the count all day.

I'd be the first to admit that my dd throws too many unnecessary pitches when her bucket dad is calling the game. Waste pitches are called when runners get on base. Outside pitches and high pitches are called in bunting situations, where the bucket dad is trying to see if the batter is going to tip her hand in laying down a bunt or checking to see if the runner is going to steal. Waste pitches are called in 0-2, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2 counts which are used as set up pitches for the following pitch. As a bucket dad/AC, pitch selection is often decided because of the strengths of the left or right side of the defense, field conditions and where the sun is.

My dd will shake off pitches that she doesn't like in certain counts. When she shakes off a pitch, it is her responsibility to try to find a pitch that she believes that she can throw with the greatest chance for success.

I've watched my dd pitch as a pick-up pitcher for other teams where catchers have called the pitches. She has been quite successful with these catchers. I've watched her pitch at triple crown recruiting camps where she told the catcher to put the glove where she wants it and she'll hit the spot. She has been successful there also.

As a bucket dad, I catch my dd 3 to 5 times a week. No two days are ever alike. Some days, I think she has the greatest control I have ever seen. Other days, I would swear that she's never thrown a softball in her life and her ability to focus is non existent and I have the bruises to support that thinking. In the end, when my dd gets ahead in the count early and often, her success rate goes up exponentially, regardless of who is calling the pitches or how many pitches that she is able to throw on that particular day.

A few weekends ago, I watched my dd throw an uneventful, no power, no spin game at 9:00 a.m. in the morning to a team that we should have beat solidly and take a loss. Five to seven hours latter, she shut down convincingly a team in pool play that eventually went on to win the tournament. She had several K's and had very good power and spin. The pitch calling was very different in the second game because my dd was constantly ahead in the count and could throw different pitches, up and down, in and out and a very good off speed.

A good example why pitch calling is more akin to chess than checkers. Also good that your DD is able to be successful when others are calling pitches, as I've seen a number of pitchers who fall apart because they are only confident when bucketdad is calling.
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,165
38
New England
How did you learn to call pitches

Lot's of good points and thought-provoking discussions so far, but to take this in another OT but pitch calling related direction - How did you learn to call pitches? Were there notable milestones or key steps in your development/evolution?
 
Dec 12, 2012
1,668
0
On the bucket
Why not just let the pitchers call there own pitches. They always know they want to throw.

If the team allows a signal to be shaken off, then they do allow it. :)

I certainly want my DD thinking about it. The pitcher and catcher both have a unique perspective on the batter.

The way I see it, both the pitcher and catcher need to evaluate the batter since they are seeing different parts of the at bat. The catcher has a better perspective and time to evaluate the batter's actions before the pitch (pre swing) is released. During this time the pitcher is busy delivering the pitch and doesn't have extra time to analyze the batter. Once the pitch is released the pitcher now has extra time to watch the batter during the swing. At this time, the catcher is busy watching the pitch and any runners on base and has less time to devote to the batter.
 
Last edited:
May 21, 2012
70
0
All year my dd's coach called screwballs. (2 innings - 2 fastballs the rest screwballs) he's changing it up now 2 fastballs the rest curveballs. She has a deadly drop but the coach got rid of that sign bcz he never calls it. Also a total of 4 change ups all season... Finally her pitching coach told her to stop w throwing all these rotation pitches. She will end up hurting herself! Throw inside and outside fastballs just to save her elbow and shoulder. She now throws the fastball periodically just to change it up.. Oh how I wish she had a decent pitch caller!
 
May 4, 2009
874
18
Baltimore
All year my dd's coach called screwballs. (2 innings - 2 fastballs the rest screwballs) he's changing it up now 2 fastballs the rest curveballs. She has a deadly drop but the coach got rid of that sign bcz he never calls it. Also a total of 4 change ups all season... Finally her pitching coach told her to stop w throwing all these rotation pitches. She will end up hurting herself! Throw inside and outside fastballs just to save her elbow and shoulder. She now throws the fastball periodically just to change it up.. Oh how I wish she had a decent pitch caller!

It's not about pitch calling. This person is stupid, Dana. Get with a real coach and your problem might go away.
 

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