Poor pitch calling

[Greenmonsters]

The problem is that the catcher cannot see something like a hitter dropping their hands during the load or other things which are exploitable weaknesses.

To your question I place more emphasis on knowing the weakness of the hitter especially at the upper levels. We throw balls to strengths and strikes to weaknesses. My pitchers have some exceptional pitches, but thrown to the wrong location to the wrong hitter it can leave the park.

I rely on myself and my coaches to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the hitter, and my catcher to make the pitch that is called as effective as possible by tweaking the location or at times substituting a pitch. Once we get through the order and know what works and what does not, it is not uncommon for me to turn it over to them and let them run with it.

IMO there is no right or wrong answer to who should call pitches. Like anything else you should take full advantage of the strengths of the players and the coaches. I have found the most successful approach is a hybrid. A collaborative effort between the coaches and the battery with appropriate latitude afforded to the catcher.

A well-reasoned and sound approach no question. Personally, I place a slightly greater emphasis on working off the pitcher's strengths.

 

[RetiredCoach]

A well-reasoned and sound approach no question. Personally, I place a slightly greater emphasis on working off the pitcher's strengths.

I've heard many top level coaches say that they work off the pitcher's strengths. I guess that I am not sure what that means. Could you please enlighten me?

 

[Greenmonsters]

Maybe at 10U - 16U but things change pretty quickly after that. You eventually get beyond being effective by throwing great pitches. In a well run program the experience and aptitude of a catcher will pale in comparison to the wealth of information available to the bench. If it were the case that the pitchers and catchers could handle it, they would be doing so at the elite levels which is simply not the case.

The problem is that not all pitchers are game smart and not all catchers are in tune. As such the quality of pitch calling invariably changes as pitchers and catchers are moved in and out of games. In terms of investment in time and effort it is not always effective to teach someone to accomplish a task when you already have a dedicated resource(s) charged with that responsibility.

Also keep in mind that in the very few upper level programs where the catchers do call pitches they invest a significant amount of time reviewing video of the opposition and meeting with coaches to develop a comprehensive pitch calling strategy. The do not just show up on game day and fly by the seat of their pants. In those situations the catcher truly becomes an extension of the coaching staff.

So why do catchers call in MLB? IME, a catcher and pitcher can develop a feel for calling each at bat of each game that simply can't be replicated from the dugout

 

[Easton33]

So why do catchers call in MLB? IME, a catcher and pitcher can develop a feel for calling each at bat of each game that simply can't be replicated from the dugout

I am sure there is quite a bit a film that has been seen on every hitter they will face and they know how to call them when their pitcher is on and what to throw when things aren't working.

 

[CoachKevin]

While I totally agree having the catcher call pitches... I am in a very strange world.. it's my pitcher!! I don't know if it's a trust issue, or lack of confidence in the catcher, but we started out letting the catcher call the game (I have known this catcher a long time and she is smart and knows the game and how to call pitches). Well the pitcher is getting rocked. Everything waist high down the middle.

I call pitches the next game she throws and she is hitting her spots and threw a great game. Next time she throws, catcher calling pitches she gets rocked again.

I have talked to her about why this is happening and she says she doesn't know why. Ugh!!!!!

 

[RetiredCoach]

While I totally agree having the catcher call pitches... I am in a very strange world.. it's my pitcher!! I don't know if it's a trust issue, or lack of confidence in the catcher, but we started out letting the catcher call the game (I have known this catcher a long time and she is smart and knows the game and how to call pitches). Well the pitcher is getting rocked. Everything waist high down the middle.

I call pitches the next game she throws and she is hitting her spots and threw a great game. Next time she throws, catcher calling pitches she gets rocked again.

I have talked to her about why this is happening and she says she doesn't know why. Ugh!!!!!

I've had this exact experience many times. To put it simply, with most pitcher/catcher combinations, I can call a better game than they can.

 

[riseball]

So why do catchers call in MLB? IME, a catcher and pitcher can develop a feel for calling each at bat of each game that simply can't be replicated from the dugout

As I said:

"Also keep in mind that in the very few upper level programs where the catchers do call pitches they invest a significant amount of time reviewing video of the opposition and meeting with coaches to develop a comprehensive pitch calling strategy. The do not just show up on game day and fly by the seat of their pants. In those situations the catcher truly becomes an extension of the coaching staff."

A MLB catcher is an extremely well compensated professional with years of experience not kid in High School or College. There are literally million$ of reason$ why MLB catchers call games. But as I said earlier they do not show up on game day and wing it. They are very well prepared and have significant experience. The analysis of MLB hitters is well documented and even available in the public domain so there are not many unknowns. Not to mention that MLB catchers have seen some hitters for years and know as much about their hitting as anyone. Comparing a MLB catcher with a TB or College Catcher is like comparing a Nurses Aide to a Brain Surgeon, they are worlds apart.

 

[riseball]

I've heard many top level coaches say that they work off the pitcher's strengths. I guess that I am not sure what that means. Could you please enlighten me?

GM posed a hypothetical question in an either/or context. I think we would all agree that no coach worth their salt goes with only one. I cannot imagine a top level coach goes with only the strengths of the pitcher while ignoring the strengths and weaknesses of the hitters.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I've heard many top level coaches say that they work off the pitcher's strengths. I guess that I am not sure what that means. Could you please enlighten me?

IMO, the difference is somewhat philosophical i.e., proactive or reactive, but also recognizes that ultimately a pitcher has to rely on what they can do to get batters out even if they don't have the specific pitch or stuff to exploit a batter's weakness. It also recognizes that good hitters will be looking for pitchers to exploit their weaknesses.

A pitcher's strengths are a function of what pitches and speeds they consistently have command and control of and the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of those during a particular game or even inning as it does vary. Without a dominating power pitcher, varying speeds and sequencing is critical.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

I've had this exact experience many times. To put it simply, with most pitcher/catcher combinations, I can call a better game than they can.

I have also had this experience as a coach...but more importantly, DD has had this experience in the circle...when I would ask about it, DD would tell me that catcher X "loves the curve and screw...I've asked her to call more change-ups and rises...and if I shake off a pitch, coach Y (not me) gets pissed...so its either throw what's called, shake off the pitch and get yelled at, or throw what I think is the right pitch and then have to explain it..." At most of the age levels we talk about here, the path of least resistance (and less resulting butt-chewing) is going to be taken by the pitcher...