Poor pitch calling

[Greenmonsters]

If coaches don't know how or don't want to call pitches there is nothing wrong with delegating that activity. But at the end of the day the coach still owns it and is accountable for the results.

Only if its their primary career/job! And if MLB managers, the most highly paid coaches and the ones with arguably the most at stake, have their catchers call, what does that tell you? IMO, college isn't the time or place to learn pitch calling and more college coaches would delegate if they had more experienced catchers.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I started this thread about one coach my DD is experiancing that flat can not call pitching. The thread has turned into a debate about catcher vs coach doing the calling. While I have no doubt that most of you have more experiance than I at pitch calling and most are better, I know I am better than this one coach and was wondering how to deal with it so my DD can have a chance at success. I have taught her as much I can. I agree that if the catcher has been taught and understands the concept of calling pitches with a plan and purpose is an excellant situation. I also understand that there are coaches that have many years of experiance to draw from and can do a better job than the catcher with a few years experiance. As I type this I am watching the BB college final and both VA and Vandy are receiving the pitch calls from the bench.

You never know where a DFP thread may lead! FWIW, the advice you got in the first 2 responses seemed right on target for your situation and probably explains why the thread went slightly off topic and evolve as it has. If college BB has it right, does that mean MLB has it wrong, or is the pitch calling/control/coach ego/lack of catcher training issue as prevalent n youth BB as it is in FP SB?

 

[Cowdogz]

As I type this I am watching the BB college final and both VA and Vandy are receiving the pitch calls from the bench.

They are receiving some kind of information from the bench. You are assuming it is pitch calls; it could be anything.

 

[Cowdogz]

IME at 14U a good catcher is better than 90% of coaches and a smart 16U catcher could do a better job than I could from the bench AND develop the confidence and experience to excel at it down the road.

At age 14 DS came one out from calling a perfect game against a pretty good team, with a pitcher who only had two pitches. We were at a point in the season where I was barely calling any pitches from the bench.

 

[riseball]

Granted a catcher has a great vantage point of the pitches as they are delivered. They can see which pitches are working and which ones are best not to be thrown. They also have an opportunity to best understand an umpires zone. However, I have yet to have one provide any useful observations regarding the swing mechanics of hitter which is absolutely critical with regard to pitch selection.

 

[RetiredCoach]

Granted a catcher has a great vantage point of the pitches as they are delivered. They can see which pitches are working and which ones are best not to be thrown. They also have an opportunity to best understand an umpires zone. However, I have yet to have one provide any useful observations regarding the swing mechanics of hitter which is absolutely critical with regard to pitch selection.

I believe that swing mechanics are crucial to pitch selection. As a coach, I believe that I can often read the hitters level of anxiousness, possibly what pitch they are looking for, and many other things including swing mechanics that goes into selecting a pitch and location. As for calling the pitches, my oldest DD at the 16U level calls her own. She has a good instinct about getting hitters out and may be better at calling the right pitch than I am. My youngest daughter at the 12U level prefers that someone else call her pitches. Her current HC does a great job of this. When he missed a game he had me fill in as a guest coach to call the pitches. Maybe as she gets older she will gain confidence and want to call her own.

During a game a coach has certain advantages over the pitcher or catcher. The coach is not worrying about executing the pitch and can study the hitter during the pitch which the pitcher and catcher can't do.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Granted a catcher has a great vantage point of the pitches as they are delivered. They can see which pitches are working and which ones are best not to be thrown. They also have an opportunity to best understand an umpires zone. However, I have yet to have one provide any useful observations regarding the swing mechanics of hitter which is absolutely critical with regard to pitch selection.

IMO, that's where a knowledgeable coach really can make the difference, as its a skill that can and should be taught and discussed/reviewed on an on-going basis.

Having to pick one or the other, which is the more important consideration - pitcher's strengths or batter's weaknesses?

 

[riseball]

IMO, that's where a knowledgeable coach really can make the difference, as its a skill that can and should be taught and discussed/reviewed on an on-going basis.

Having to pick one or the other, which is the more important consideration - pitcher's strengths or batter's weaknesses?

The problem is that the catcher cannot see something like a hitter dropping their hands during the load or other things which are exploitable weaknesses.

To your question I place more emphasis on knowing the weakness of the hitter especially at the upper levels. We throw balls to strengths and strikes to weaknesses. My pitchers have some exceptional pitches, but thrown to the wrong location to the wrong hitter it can leave the park.

I rely on myself and my coaches to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the hitter, and my catcher to make the pitch that is called as effective as possible by tweaking the location or at times substituting a pitch. Once we get through the order and know what works and what does not, it is not uncommon for me to turn it over to them and let them run with it.

IMO there is no right or wrong answer to who should call pitches. Like anything else you should take full advantage of the strengths of the players and the coaches. I have found the most successful approach is a hybrid. A collaborative effort between the coaches and the battery with appropriate latitude afforded to the catcher.

 

[CoachFP]

One thing not mentioned is teaching the pitcher to look for strengths and weakness and the catcher to communicate how the pitches are doing. If the pitcher is smart and the catcher is in tune, coaches from the bench aren't needed.

 

[riseball]

One thing not mentioned is teaching the pitcher to look for strengths and weakness and the catcher to communicate how the pitches are doing. If the pitcher is smart and the catcher is in tune, coaches from the bench aren't needed.

Maybe at 10U - 16U but things change pretty quickly after that. You eventually get beyond being effective by throwing great pitches. In a well run program the experience and aptitude of a catcher will pale in comparison to the wealth of information available to the bench. If it were the case that the pitchers and catchers could handle it, they would be doing so at the elite levels which is simply not the case.

The problem is that not all pitchers are game smart and not all catchers are in tune. As such the quality of pitch calling invariably changes as pitchers and catchers are moved in and out of games. In terms of investment in time and effort it is not always effective to teach someone to accomplish a task when you already have a dedicated resource(s) charged with that responsibility.

Also keep in mind that in the very few upper level programs where the catchers do call pitches they invest a significant amount of time reviewing video of the opposition and meeting with coaches to develop a comprehensive pitch calling strategy. The do not just show up on game day and fly by the seat of their pants. In those situations the catcher truly becomes an extension of the coaching staff.