Playing up, Up, UP

[WARRIORMIKE]

My daughter's play for fun first and foremost, winning against a good team is fun. Winning against a far inferior team is not fun, getting curb stomped every game is not fun.

Two seasons ago we got curbed stomped like American history X! It was brutal

 

[guero_gordo]

DD played on a team that got their butts kicked by the top tier teams every week all Spring that ended up being competitive from mid-June through the end in August BUT they were not getting destroyed by the differentials you're talking about.

I'm not a fan of aiming low, but I question the sanity of spending money to travel out of state and get demolished. Seems like they could find solid competition locally for now and ramp it up when they get closer to a .500 winning ratio.

 

[YOCOACH]

If I were in your situation, I would be asking two questions of the coaches. 1) What's the short term goals for playing up in these tournaments? 2) What's the long term goals for this?

I am a huge believer in playing the best competition around in order to get better. If that means playing up and getting our butts handed to us then so be it. By the same token, I have certain goals, both short term and long term for the team. For example, short term goals may be to play at the 18u level all tourney season long to get ready for, and do well in the 16u division of ASA Nationals. Long term could be something along the lines of getting every player recruited that wishes to play in college and the best way to do that IMO is to make them the best player they can be.

With that being said, the coaches should have discussed with the parents what these goals are and the reasoning behind playing up. It's a very fine line between self-confidence and self-destruction for a team. As some have said, losing, especially by big numbers, can often times lead to the habit of losing. As long as the team and the parents know, understand and buy into the reasoning behind this consistent butt whipping, the habit forming shouldn't happen.

 

[treeguy]

There is nothing to gain for either team in a 22-0 butt kicking. Playing in one tournament like that once a year may be beneficial, but not every tournament. Doing it one time allows your players to see what good teams look like. It lets them see where they are now, and where they are striving to get. As said before, constantly getting hammered breeds a losing mentality. Teams need to learn how to win. They need to learn how to handle pressure situations and come through in a clutch situation. They need to learn how to win a close hard fought game where every pitch matters. They need that pressure filled at bat when they are down a run, it's the bottom of the seventh, two outs and a runner on third. They are never getting that when they are always getting spread. It's hard for girls to play hard with intensity when they know the inevitable outcome is getting spanked. I'm a big fan of playing up, just not so far that winning a game is never possible. Our girls started playing softball because it is fun. There isn't much fun in losing every game by a large margin.

 

[YOCOACH]

There is nothing to gain for either team in a 22-0 butt kicking.

I respectfully disagree with this. I would say there is nothing to be gained by the winning team. However, the losing team can take much away from this kind of loss such as how, what, where and why did things go wrong and what needs to improve in their game to play at the next level. Mental toughness/not giving up/limiting errors, how to hit faster pitching/ pitching with more movement and better base-running techniques are just a few examples of the many aspects they may need to improve on.

Teams need to learn how to win. They need to learn how to handle pressure situations and come through in a clutch situation.

Again, IMO this is how this is achieved. By working on their faults through the losses, they are learning how to win. Over a period of time, the team will fight and lose by fewer and fewer runs until they will eventually fight and win those close games. They will also have confidence, self-esteem, and hopefully some cockiness when it's achieved.

It's hard for girls to play hard with intensity when they know the inevitable outcome is getting spanked.

Girls will surprise you. IME most girls are far more competitive at sports than others. Where many might give up at a massive drubbing, many girls will continue to play through the last pitch.

Our girls started playing softball because it is fun. There isn't much fun in losing every game by a large margin.

And who's to say that after the 3rd or 4th tourney of playing up that they aren't winning and beating teams at that level? Mine did. We were a 14U that played 16U last year and we started out with beatings. Over the course of the next 2 months we had closed the loss scores to single digits. 3 months later we were winning more than we lost. The point is that not every team can be lumped in with the "no matter what happens they're gonna get their a$$es handed to them" crowd. An awful lot depends on the coaching, the team's and individual player's drive to improve and the team having faith that the end results will speak for themselves. This is known as "having moxy."

 

[CoogansBluff]

And who's to say that after the 3rd or 4th tourney of playing up that they aren't winning and beating teams at that level? Mine did. We started out with beatings and over the course of the next 2 months we had closed the loss scores to single digits. 3 months later we were winning more than we lost.

In this case, they've already reached the 3rd or 4th tournament, and they're still getting bashed.

If you're a band of 13-year-olds (ie, not beginners) getting run-ruled most of the time, losing by ridiculous scores like 22-0, it would take some very unusual circumstances to then be able to have a winning record against those very same opponents with the very same roster three months later, IMO. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't say that I've ever seen in happen.

 

[quincy]

I find it hard to believe that you cannot get your butt kicked for a lot cheaper than taking out of state trips.

 

[treeguy]

Yocoach

I don't think we disagree about playing up. I'm a big advocate of it. But the OP's situation sounds like it is extreme. He mentioned that most of his team are girls recently removed from 12B to now playing 16Gold teams. That's just not reasonable.

I think you are missing my main point about learning to play in pressure situations. There are absolutely no pressure situations in a 22-0 blowout. There aren't any in a 9-2 loss. I absolutely agree that there is a lot to be learned in losses, even in a lot of bad losses. But at some point you have to learn how to win. You have to be in a situation that the game is on the line. If you are never in that situation, you wont learn how to do it. Setting up a team to fail only teaches them how to fail.

 

[Easton33]

You are right to question the coach on this. It does not make sense and he is putting an unnecessary burden on the parents by making the kids travel. Not that I disagree with playing up but if you are getting floored 22-0, then I am confident there are some 16u teams close to you guys that will oblige. There may even be a few that you guys can win on occasions without putting an unnecessary financial burden on the parents. Save your money, enter 16's close to home. The lessons will be the same and they won't cost as much.
To answer your question about how other teams perceive you guys, I put the question back to you. How would you like to play a second year 10u team? Me personally, I hate when lower level teams get in our tournaments because the lower level teams usually have slow pitchers. Is this how you guys are keeping some of the games close? The opposing teams are having trouble with your pitcher's speed? Speaking of the pitcher, does the coach really think this a confidence builder for his pitcher? An intervention is needed I think. Competing and losing is 1 thing but doesn't sound like you guys are competing at all.

 

[YOCOACH]

In this case, they're already reached the 3rd or 4th tournament, and they're still getting bashed.

If you're a band of 13-year-olds (ie, not beginners) getting run-ruled most of the time, losing by ridiculous scores like 22-0, it would take some very unusual circumstances to then be able to have a winning record against those very same opponents with the very same roster three months later, IMO. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't say that I've ever seen in happen.

So the question becomes, are they a true 14u "A" level team. If you read the OP, they played 2 tournaments at the 14U level and some at the 16U level in the Fall. Just because they dominate the local competition does not make them a true 14U A team. For all we know, they may be from an area of the country where it's not as competitive as say SoCal. Being the big fish in a small pond doesn't make you the biggest fish in one of the Great Lakes.

Or is it a case of being one of the lesser 14U A team in the tournaments they are playing? If they were a SEC D1 college team and they ended the season in last place in their conference, it's not as if they still aren't a D1 SEC team. There just not a very good team as compared to the others in the SEC.

Edit to Add: As a second year 14U TB team last year, we entered a 18U TB/HS league during the week in lieu of one of our practices. There were two halves to the season and the second half schedule reflected the first half with the home teams switched. The first half of the season the top tier teams beat us up pretty badly. Even teams I believe we should have won against beat us by 5 or more runs. I'm not saying we didn't win the occasional game, it just wasn't very often. However, you could see the team improving week to week. By the beginning of the second half it was a different story. The top tier teams still beat us but not nearly as bad. The teams I felt we should have beaten we usually, but not always beat and the ones we had defeated in the first half of the season we usually beat as well. We ended the second half of the league just over .500.