Overuse vs. Underpractice

[Dave D]

I know this topic has been dealt with before, at different levels, but I'd like to see it discussed here again to clear up what I see as some inconsistencies between what many of the experts on this board have to say about the "How much?/How often?" question.

Hitter posted some info in another thread about the growing pile of evidence that softball pitchers are prone to the same overuse injuries as baseball pitchers. There appears to be a growing consensus in the scientific community that overuse is definitely a serious concern.

At the same time, I see PCs and other people in the know regularly contributing posts that emphasize the importance of throwing (hard) 4 or 5 times a week, and sometimes more. A baseball coach who put a kid on a schedule like that would be hung up by his _____(fill in sensitive body part here).

DD will be 14 in a couple of weeks. She's been pitching since she was 9 (I think. Seems like much longer). She's a solid, strong kid with pretty good muscle development, especially in her arms and shoulders. We throw 3X per week, 10 months a year, 45-60 min. sessions. We do sets of pitches, and tailor workouts to be as efficient as possible. Counting warmup tosses, she probably throws 200 balls per session, with 60-80 full windup pitches per workout.

While I know it's a "different strokes for different folks" area, I would like to see if there is a consensus among the experts here about how many balls a day/week is optimal. Lots of dads and moms out there are getting lots of conflicting advice about what it takes to develop and maintain and effective pitcher.

Let the Wild Rumpus Begin!

 

[Shadow]

Up at 4am pitching by 4:30. 6am she in the shower then school, practice, homework, pitching again between 7:30p - 8:30p. I'm thinking of getting her during her lunch period to throw some more. I don't recommend this routine, but I was finally able to get her FB up to 80mph. In reality since I'm out of town during the week, we get between 2-4 hours on the weekends talking a couple months off a year.

 

[Coach Stan]

I may be one of the rare instructors who feels that pitchers should let their body heal from weekend pitching and weekday practice sessions. One of the major questions I get from parents is how often their dd should practice. I normally tell them that not counting the time with me they should practice 2 times a week. What does this mean. They see me for a lesson counts as 1, then they practice twice a week which means they have 3 workout sessions during the week and then they pitch on Sat and Sun which leaves the body 2 or 3 days of rest depending on how much they pitch over the weekend. I have suggested this type of rest since 1975 and as far as I know it has worked for every one of my students. I also make sure that each students gets time off during off time for their travel teams and specially after nationals. Normally I say 2 weeks then we start back slow. However some parents take 3 to 4 weeks off which does not bother me as long as they understand that it will take longer for their dd to get back to the level they had before the extended break.

 

[sluggers]

Overuse injuries in softball are a fact, but I do not think it is as big of a problem as in baseball.

IMHO, the practicing at home with Dad that is not the problem--(unless Dad is the usual crazy daddy psycho who makes his/her DD pitch even when the kid has a hurt arm). Most Dads (I hope) limit practices to about 90 minutes, and practice perhaps 4 to 5 days a week for 10 months out of the year.

The real problem is the over-pitching by travel ball, HS and college coaches. Many college coaches pitch their number 1 pitcher for both ends of a double header, and then have her come back the next day and pitch again. Similarly, I've seen travel ball coaches pitch a kid 3-5 games in a day. My DD did 7 during a day.

It is not unheard of in college for a pitcher to practice pitching for 2 hours of practice, and then throw an hour of batting practice every day of the week except when they are playing a game--and then the pitcher is pitching games.

 

[BoardMember]

From a PM I responded to today regarding this very subject.......My feeling.......

2-3 times MAX pre week, with one of those times working on spins and release timing from the 9:00(3:00) and 12:00 drill positions.

The shoulder needs time to recover between full motion full speed workouts.........

That's how I've trained pitchers for 25 years.......

 

[Dave D]

Shadow--you must be the guy I was talking to at the clinic over the winter. LMAO.

 

[Hitter]

Overuse injuries in softball are a fact, but I do not think it is as big of a problem as in baseball.

IMHO, the practicing at home with Dad that is not the problem--(unless Dad is the usual crazy daddy psycho who makes his/her DD pitch even when the kid has a hurt arm). Most Dads (I hope) limit practices to about 90 minutes, and practice perhaps 4 to 5 days a week for 10 months out of the year.

The real problem is the over-pitching by travel ball, HS and college coaches. Many college coaches pitch their number 1 pitcher for both ends of a double header, and then have her come back the next day and pitch again. Similarly, I've seen travel ball coaches pitch a kid 3-5 games in a day. My DD did 7 during a day.

It is not unheard of in college for a pitcher to practice pitching for 2 hours of practice, and then throw an hour of batting practice every day of the week except when they are playing a game--and then the pitcher is pitching games.

I know nothing about pitching....my job is to teach our hitters how to beat them! However most of my best hitters by position are my pitchers!

This article in my opinion sheds more light on what has been under investigated and possibly misunderstood when it comes to over use and under hand throwing in my opinion.

From the net...Descriptive Epidemiology of Collegiate Women's Softball Injuries: National Collegiate Athletic Association Injury Surveillance System, 1988?1989 Through 2003?2004

Shoulder injuries are another primary area of preventive concern for collegiate softball players. Although the results do not specify the number of shoulder injuries that can be categorized as chronic or overuse, shoulder strains and shoulder tendinitis were common chronic/overuse injuries that accounted for almost 10% of practice injuries ( Table 5). Furthermore, 5.5% of practice injuries resulting in 10+ days of activity time loss were attributable to shoulder tendinitis ( Table 6). A common misconception is that the windmill motion of softball pitching creates less stress on the arm than the overhead motion of baseball pitching does. However, the degree of shoulder distraction stress on elite softball pitchers during the 1996 Olympic Games averaged 80% ± 22% of their body weight (range = 50% to 149%), which is comparable to that of professional baseball players (mean = 108% ± 16% body weight, range = 83% to 139% body weight) and may put softball pitchers at risk for overuse injury. 14, 15 When 181 NCAA female pitchers were surveyed, 25% of their injuries were categorized as chronic/overuse shoulder injuries. 6 Pitch counts need to be more of a priority for coaches, pitchers, and certified athletic trainers, with an emphasis on the quality versus the quantity of pitches during practice. 6 Furthermore, position-specific interval throwing programs have been designed based on NCAA softball game data, field dimensions, common softball injuries, and general tissue-healing concepts. 16 These programs are not only important for rehabilitation but also may be a beneficial component of the conditioning regimens for all position players. 16
Finish First Insider, Issue #78

Thanks Howard

 

[tojo]

I know this topic has been dealt with before, at different levels, but I'd like to see it discussed here again to clear up what I see as some inconsistencies between what many of the experts on this board have to say about the "How much?/How often?" question.

Hitter posted some info in another thread about the growing pile of evidence that softball pitchers are prone to the same overuse injuries as baseball pitchers. There appears to be a growing consensus in the scientific community that overuse is definitely a serious concern.

At the same time, I see PCs and other people in the know regularly contributing posts that emphasize the importance of throwing (hard) 4 or 5 times a week, and sometimes more. A baseball coach who put a kid on a schedule like that would be hung up by his _____(fill in sensitive body part here).

DD will be 14 in a couple of weeks. She's been pitching since she was 9 (I think. Seems like much longer). She's a solid, strong kid with pretty good muscle development, especially in her arms and shoulders. We throw 3X per week, 10 months a year, 45-60 min. sessions. We do sets of pitches, and tailor workouts to be as efficient as possible. Counting warmup tosses, she probably throws 200 balls per session, with 60-80 full windup pitches per workout.

While I know it's a "different strokes for different folks" area, I would like to see if there is a consensus among the experts here about how many balls a day/week is optimal. Lots of dads and moms out there are getting lots of conflicting advice about what it takes to develop and maintain and effective pitcher.

Let the Wild Rumpus Begin!

I believe conditioning is the key to the number of practices a pitcher should be doing weekly. One that has just started pitching should gradually condition themselves before throwing too many pitchs or too many practices. I would suggest twice a week between lessons and as their muscles strengthen, then step up the repetitions and number of practices. I also suggest taking a break thanksgiving and starting back the middle of January.Occasionally, taking a break of a couple days after a grueling tournament;then get back at it.

 

[lhowser]

The real problem is the over-pitching by travel ball, HS and college coaches. Many college coaches pitch their number 1 pitcher for both ends of a double header, and then have her come back the next day and pitch

BINGO!

One game Friday, 2 Saturday and 3 - 4 full games for one pitcher cannot be good for a 12 year old but I've seen it many times in the chase for the giant plastic trophey