Over-Training vs. Proper Rest

[southpaw coach]

Has anyone got any study data on how much rest pitchers should have between workouts? Talking 12 year olds. My girl typically works out 45 minutes 3-4 times a week unless its a tournament week. During tourney season, she could pitch in games 2-3 days in a row, then get a couple days off with a mid-week workout with their pitching coach.

I know of a 12 year old who is a good pitcher but I worry that she is over-training and not getting enough rest. It is my understanding she has pitching workouts 90 minutes every day regardless if she has pitched the day or days prior. She has chronic back and neck issues and routinely takes Ibuprofen before an outing. Very hard thrower for her age and definitely her team's go to pitcher. Like any kid she has off days however. I have urged her parents to give her some rest but I think they think I'm nuts. She is awful young and full of potential. I hate to see her flame out.

Something I have noticed with my own daughter if she has some days off after having pitched a lot, she comes back throwing harder.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I think the consensus is that most girls over train and that the training falters due to the law of diminishing returns.

Most posters would also add that every girl is different, some require more practice than others.

What we did in 12u was to schedule pitching practice year round but when life gets in the way we didn't make up that practice. So there were many weeks in the winter and during holidays that we didn't practice at all.

Hope that helps.

 

[bucket pinata]

90 minutes everyday is way to much for a 12 IMHO. Although 45 minutes seem way to little. My DDS cant keep it fun, get stretched out and warmed up to start practicing in under 30.I like 90 minutes two to three times a week year round. During championship season july,August, when they are both ridden like used circus ponies we rarely do more during the week other than keeping the arm loose.by then you got what you got.

 

[ThatDad]

"I have urged her parents to give her some rest but I think they think I'm nuts. She is awful young and full of potential. I hate to see her flame out."
Please don't do that. Is that your kid? What makes you think you know what's right for someone else's kid and or family. My DD is a pretty good pitcher certainly the best in our area. I cant tell you how many people came up to me and told me similar things. It angered me so much, where do people get the audacity to tell other people how to parent or raise their own kids. I don't go around telling parents their kids and themselves are lazy and should work harder if they want to be good. Why in the heck do you think its your job to tell me to make my kid work less.
In all honesty most of the people that felt I was going to burn my kid out, have had their kids quit sports all together.
So please even if you are right, keep it to yourself. Focus on your OWN kids and everybody will be happier for it.
Oh...as to the answer to your question, I work out with my kid whenever she WANTS to. Seems to work pretty well for us.

 

[Coach Fastpitch]

We have team/org rules for time off. We are an A level travel team. Not saying we are perfect or even right, just what we do based on what our org has learned based on independent research and our coaches personal experiences. We schedule time off as follows: 3 months a year broken out as follows, August and December off, then a week in march, a week in April, a week in May and a week in June. When I say off we have no pitching or overhand throwing and no practice. Hitting and speed and agility is ok during the off periods.

 

[southpaw coach]

"I have urged her parents to give her some rest but I think they think I'm nuts. She is awful young and full of potential. I hate to see her flame out."
Please don't do that. Is that your kid? What makes you think you know what's right for someone else's kid and or family. My DD is a pretty good pitcher certainly the best in our area. I cant tell you how many people came up to me and told me similar things. It angered me so much, where do people get the audacity to tell other people how to parent or raise their own kids. I don't go around telling parents their kids and themselves are lazy and should work harder if they want to be good. Why in the heck do you think its your job to tell me to make my kid work less.
In all honesty most of the people that felt I was going to burn my kid out, have had their kids quit sports all together.
So please even if you are right, keep it to yourself. Focus on your OWN kids and everybody will be happier for it.
Oh...as to the answer to your question, I work out with my kid whenever she WANTS to. Seems to work pretty well for us.

I appreciate where you are coming from. I guess I see the back and neck issues along with her requiring pain med before a game to be a sign of trouble. At this point I'm not going to say another word about it.

Just wondering if anyone has studied this and if so, can you share the conclusions?

 

[ThatDad]

Its pretty hard to have a definitive study when every kid is so different. What I have witnessed personally is great pitchers have insatiable work ethics. You cant force a kid to throw the amount it takes to be great. Good...maybe, but not great. There are honestly so many variables that go into how much and when a pitcher needs to throw that NO ONE can answer that. My opinion though is parents generally know their kids better than an outsider that has no real clue what that particular kid needs. Also being sore and taking ibuprofen like candy seems pretty normal to me especially in-season.
Go ahead Hal, let me have it. I know none of your students get sore or need ibuprofen. Just relating my experience from the bucket.

 

[humpty]

University of Florida head orthopaedic guy says 120 pitches a day no more than 2 days in a row for a 12 yr old Female.

 

[sluggers]

All I can say about ThatDad's post is that it is packed full of misinformation.

Also being sore and taking ibuprofen like candy seems pretty normal to me especially in-season.

A 12YOA kid taking "ibuprofen like candy" is normal? 12YOA kids should *NOT* be regularly taking pain meds. If she requires pain meds to pitch, she has serious problems.

Its pretty hard to have a definitive study when every kid is so different.

Again, totally wrong. Over-pitching can result in damage to the arm--specifically the long head of the bicep tendon.

There are honestly so many variables that go into how much and when a pitcher needs to throw that NO ONE can answer that.

Again, where do you get this stuff? Most kids throw 3 to 5 times a week, generally for 60 to 90 minutes a session. Pitching a game counts toward the 3 to 5 times a week.

Generally, a kid should not pitch more than two games a day, and should take the Friday before and the Monday after a tournament off if she has thrown four or five games over the Saturday and Sunday.

What I have witnessed personally is great pitchers have insatiable work ethics.

And parents are there to protect the child from hurting herself.

There are many, many things a kid can do to become a better pitcher which do not involve pitching.

 

[humpty]

Thatdad are you joking. You sound like an idiot. Hopefully your kids arm doesn't fall off.